77 – Getting Started with NFTs with Dave Conrey

Nikki

00:00
In Episode 64, we introduced you to Dave Conrey, an artist and designer who’s always exploring creative new ways to make his own art and share what he’s learned with other artists and designers.

Laura

00:12
In that episode, we talked about using print on demand on your own website. So if you haven’t heard that yet, it’s definitely worth the listen. Today we have Dave back, because he has done a huge deep dive into the crazy new world of NFTs over the last year. This is a huge buzzword for artists right now. And there’s a lot of confusion about what exactly NFTs are, how they work, how you make money with them, which marketplaces to use, how to market your NFTs, their impact on the environment, and so much more. We can’t wait to dive into all of these topics with Dave. So let’s get started. Hi, this is Laura Lee Griffin.

Nikki

01:00
And this is Nikki May, with the Startist Society, inspiring you to stop getting in your own way and start building an art biz and life that you love.

Laura

01:09
We are artists who believe strongly in the power of community, accountability, following your intuition, taking small actionable steps and breaking down the barriers of fear and procrastination that keep you stuck.

Nikki

01:22
Follow along with us on our creative business journey as we encourage you on yours.

Laura

01:30
Dave, welcome back to the Startist Society.

Dave

01:33
Yeah, thanks for having me again.

Nikki

01:35
So okay, let’s just dive in with the basic question that everybody wants to know… what the hell is an NFT and why should we care?

Dave

01:44
Yeah, it’s funny. I wonder how long that that it’s gonna be before you know, this becomes like a, like everybody like, Oh, I know what NFTs are.

Nikki

01:52
Right.

Dave

01:53
So, you know, I’m not the premier authority on this, but NFT stands for non-fungible token. And it basically means that it is something that cannot be duplicated, cannot be replicated, cannot be destroyed. Well, I mean, technically, I guess it could be destroyed, but it’s not something that you can break apart and share. It is a single unit that has some sort of intrinsic value in it. Sometimes it’s merely just art. Sometimes it has…

Nikki

02:22
Wait, wait, wait… merely?

Dave

02:24
Well, because, I mean, what I, what I, what I mean by that is that sometimes it’s you’re buying the art if you’re buying an NFT, right?

Nikki

02:33
Okay.

Dave

02:34
And that’s what you get. But then there’s other NFTs out there that have what they call utility, and have aspects to them that are deeper than an image. Right? It goes beyond the scope of just, you know, the the picture.

Nikki

02:51
Gotcha.

Dave

02:51
And in fact, really, the NFT isn’t so much the picture, as it is the information that is behind it. That’s really the NFT; the picture that most people make reference to when it comes to NFTs is merely window dressing. It just happens to be a very decorative way to represent your net worth. Kind of like, when you own a home, your home’s very pretty, right? But the paint on the wall doesn’t really represent the value of the home, right? There’s so much more to it than just how pretty it looks like on the outside. That’s kind of what pictures are two NFTs. It’s what’s going on behind there, that’s the ownership that people are looking for.

Nikki

03:34
Okay.

Laura

03:34
Yeah, and I see a lot of questions like, there’s a JPG on the internet, and then it’s an NFT, what’s the difference? So you’re kind of speaking to that difference, right?

Dave

03:44
Exactly. Right. So yeah, but you could easily take that picture and turn around and you know, like posted a put it in your phone, put it up on your Instagram, you know, even though it’s not yours shared on your Facebook or whatever, you could do that. But there’s this contract, this smart contract that goes into any purchase like this, any NFT purchase, that says this person over here bought this item, or this NFT from this person over here. And that is a non-breakable transaction until somebody, that person who buys it turns around and does the same thing for somebody else. Right. And so there’s there’s that to it, and that if it does, if an NFT does have utility, then that utility carries over or in certain circumstances can even be what they call burned for use in some other purpose. So like say somebody buys an NFT to, for instance, Gary Vaynerchuk’s VeeFriends is one particular example. And one of the exchanges that you can have is that if you want to you can burn that NFT and in exchange you get like a direct access opportunity with him. Meaning like a 15 minute sit down with Gary Vaynerchuk himself. And…

Nikki

05:04
So basically you’re using that NFT that you bought kind of as a currency or an exchange, for an experience.

Dave

05:12
Yeah. And essentially any NFT really is a currency for pretty much anything. It just depends on whatever anybody decides the value is of that particular thing.

Nikki

05:23
Let’s step back just a little bit and talk about some NFT vocabulary because we’ve brought up words like utility, and, you know, all NFTs are based on cryptocurrency and blockchain and ether and Ethereum, and gas price and minting, and let’s, let’s kind of go through some of this vocabulary and explain a little bit about what it is.

Dave

05:51
Okay. Well, there’s a lot there. So, I’m not an expert on blockchain, like I know enough about blockchain to understand that, whenever you do something on a blockchain, which is essentially a, a very robust, diverse network of, for lack of a better term, nodes, right. And those nodes are, they can be just servers in a big giant room, they can be somebody’s computer, they can be, you know, all kinds of different things, right. So the blockchain is when when interactions between these data, pieces get created and transferred, the information…it’s not like when you go, it’s like I want to share something with somebody and I put it on my Dropbox and it’s in one spot, and then somebody can go find it, or multiple people can go find it, that information is more secure because essentially, what it’s doing is it’s taking the data, breaking it apart, and spreading it across the entire blockchain, or at least a good portion of it. I don’t know how all the the networks work, but that’s basically the idea that all the information is spread out so you can’t hack into one of these nodes and just get immediate access to that thing that you’re buying.

Nikki

07:15
And it keeps track of, of every transaction that’s happened, so if something’s passed from one person, to another person to another person, the whole thread is always there, it just keeps track of everything, which makes it far more secure, trustworthy…

Dave

07:32
Well, the breadcrumbs are always there to everything, right.

Nikki

07:34
Yeah, exactly.

Dave

07:36
Yeah. And of course, there’s, there’s flaws in the system, and there’s opportunity for hacking. And so things like this do happen. And it’s just, you know, as things go on, security protocols get just better and better over time. And, you know, the hacking is gonna get more difficult, more difficult as things go on. Because part of it is that some of these hackers are the original people who built up some of these blockchains in the first place, right? So they know how to, you know how to manipulate or to, you know, find the, the breaking points in them, and so they know how to break into them or whatever. So, that kind of happens, but that’s gonna, you know, as things get more sophisticated, that will change over time. So there’s that.

Laura

08:17
So in essence, you’re saying you’re creating, let’s just say you, you create a piece of art and you want to make an NFT out of it. It’s now getting spread across this huge network through the blockchain. I think that’s what you call minting. Is that right? When you meant something, then it creates that NFT through that process,

Dave

08:36
Mint is essentially you’re adding your NFT to the blockchain. Because otherwise, it’s just like, you can create a listing, and this differs from platform to platform meaning from, you know, marketplace to marketplace, because some operate different than others. But so for instance, let’s say OpenSea, because it’s the largest one out there, I can go and put up a you know, a listing of my, my NFT, right, or my picture, my art, I can put up up, put my art up, put all the information up there and have it you know, have it shown on my account. But technically, it’s not an NFT yet, right? It’s just, it’s just a here’s my art, but then there’s a secondary part to it, where you go and you sell it, you hit the sell button, right? And as soon as you hit the sell button, it brings up your crypto wallet and it says do you want to make this contract happen? Now on some marketplaces, that’s where you would get charged a little bit of a gas fee or maybe a lot of a gas fee to mint that.

Nikki

09:39
And explain for people who don’t know what a gas fee is.

Dave

09:43
I’ll get to that in just one second so just so we can clarify so it keeps everything the same. So on OpenSea the minting actually happens when somebody buys. So I can go and sell something I know I can put something for sale on OpenSea and I don’t get charged for or anything, when the gas fee or when the the minting exists is when somebody comes over to my OpenSea account, and then makes the purchase, that’s when that minting process actually happens on OpenSea, on some of the places it is…

Nikki

10:14
Does that mean it’s technically not an NFT until someone buys it?

Dave

10:18
It’s a good question because I guess technically it would be as soon as you hit put it up for sale, it is an NFT, although it’s not technically truly minted yet. Because it is an NFT in the sense that it has a wallet address or it has an a blockchain address as soon as you put it up for sale. So it’s on the blockchain, so technically, there is the contract available. But it isn’t technically truly minted until, it’s almost like if a developer had a neighborhood for sale, or, you know, had built a bunch of houses. But only the first phase were available for sale and the second phase were just sitting over there. The first phase would be NFTs, the second phase would just be like, they’re going to be available, they’re just not available yet. And so that’s it’s kind of what what it is, it’s like it’s waiting to become something as soon as somebody makes that purchase, or whatever. So now, gas fees.

Nikki

11:15
Yeah, what’s a gas fee?

Dave

11:17
So every single transaction requires some sort of, you know, like the people who are providing these nodes and creating these, these big systems to allow these transactions to happen, they are essentially needing to be paid for their effort and energy and time because they’re making this network available and so it’s kind of like a tax on the system. Without getting too deep into the technical aspects, some tokens or coins, they work differently and so the gas or tax is higher. Specifically, Ethereum is a very tax rich system because the way that they built it, they built it with a sense of like, needing to be more secure. They built it very strong, very secure from the, from the beginning. But it is a very, like, when everybody’s talking about how much of an impact it’s having on the planet, they’re talking about Bitcoin, and they’re talking about Ethereum, because these are very taxing systems that cost a lot of money to run. Now, there are other tokens out there and other NFT marketplaces that operate on different tokens like say, Polygon, Solana, Tezos is another one. All of these operate much more efficiently, they’re just not very popular right now. They’re getting more popular, they’re just not anywhere close to as popular as Ethereum at this point.

Laura

12:43
Well, let’s talk a little bit about that environmental impact. Because I think from an artist perspective, that’s probably the top thing I’ve heard, that keeps people from getting into NFTs. They’re like, No, I don’t want to hurt the environment, if this takes a huge amount of expenditure of energy to do all the blockchain copying, and like you were mentioning, taking the one thing and breaking it apart into a million pieces. If it takes all of that energy and that power, am I actually destroying my planet by, you know, dipping my toe into the water into NFTs?

Dave

13:18
I mean, the short answer, unfortunately, the short answer is yes, a little bit, you know, and it’s all a matter of degrees. But again, it depends on what network you’re on. If you’re on OpenSea or if you’re operating on the Ethereum network, different ones are going to be, you know, they’re going to be a lot more robust than others. However, if you look at Ethereum as a financial institution that it really is, comparatively to other financial institutions, is it doing more damage than all of the different like, like Wells Fargo has how many different banks and ATMs and people that work for them? And you know, all the different financial, all the companies that they own or are invested in? How much damage is all of that doing, right?

Nikki

14:10
Well and everything that we do has some environmental impact. I mean, we’re all driving cars, right?

Dave

14:17
Yeah, well, for now, right? Until we only live on the internet and only exist in pods, with our things over our faces. And…

Nikki

14:25
Don’t say that, I’m about to live on a school bus!

Dave

14:30
But you know, I mean, there are things we can do better. There are things we can definitely do better. But here’s the thing about Ethereum. They understand their impact on the internet and they’re working pretty hard to reestablish. They want to maintain the security that they’ve built up with Ethereum right, but they also understand they want to change how they do things and work and change the protocol from what they call the proof of work to proof of stake, which the proof of work is what’s costing so much, it uses so much energy, the proof of stake uses far less energy, but is not quite as secure as what Ethereum is happy with. So they’re trying to get there, but they’re trying to do their due diligence to make sure that it’s the right way for them. The thing is, though, is that Ethereum has been working on that for a very long time. And so, they say that it’s coming this year, it’s coming this year, it’s always been coming this year, so who knows when that’s actually going to happen. But if it does, and you’re already working on Ethereum, well, then the transition is going to be smooth. If you jump over to a different network, say, Solana or Tezos or something like that you could, sure, you could always come back over to Ethereum at some point, but maybe establishing yourself on a marketplace that’s working with Ethereum, like you’re going to be better off when the switch happens, maybe.

Laura

15:57
So let’s step back and talk a little bit about cryptocurrency. You’ve mentioned Ethereum a few times. Some of our listeners don’t really know what cryptocurrency is; they may have heard of Bitcoin. Can you help give a description of what cryptocurrency is? My understanding is, there’s only a certain amount of cryptocurrency and so it’s not like the I don’t know, like the US Treasury where they just go print a whole bunch more $100 bills if they want to, like there’s a fixed total. Is that a true statement?

Dave

16:26
Not always, that is true for some but not all. So again, there’s not necessarily, like, I’m not a total crypto expert, but what little I know about this is that there’s essentially two types. There’s one that they call inflationary, and then there’s one that’s deflationary. And the idea is that the deflationary would have a set amount, and it will always be that set amount, or it may even be degraded over time, like they actually literally burn some of the coin, in order to keep increasing the price of that particular coin, it’d be no different than say, Apple has decided to buy back some of their stock, because they can increase the price or the value of their stock by buying some of it back. An inflationary one is one that constantly grows, right, like Bitcoin is an inflationary coin. There is no limit to what Bitcoin can actually produce. However, they have said that, and I don’t know when this is supposed to happen or what their metric is for making this decision, but they’ve said that at a certain point, they are going to move from inflationary to deflationary. And then they will start to burn coins.

Laura

17:41
So let’s step back… if somebody is wanting to get into NFTs, they’re hearing about all this, we’ve got this blockchain, we have, you know, potential environmental impacts, but there’s going to be improvements made over time to that. And they want to get started, they have to purchase some cryptocurrency to get started in that world. Is that true?

Dave

18:00
Yeah, absolutely. But I know that there are some networks where you can go, and you can buy directly from your credit card, or debit card or, or whatever. Now, essentially what they’re doing is they’re taking your money, they’re exchanging it for whatever coin, and then using that to make the purchase. Right? So like Nifty Gateway is one, which is, it’s a curated marketplace, they only show artists that they want to show. But you can go there today with your credit card and make a purchase of an NFT just like that. And you still have to have a cryptocurrency wallet, which is, you know, an essential thing that we can talk about if you want, because that’s still gonna happen. But if you wanted to, like I have an NFT, not one of my NFT’s, I purchased an NFT on Nifty Gateway last year sometime. And it’s just sitting there at this point, I could at some point, move that NFT, put it into my wallet, and just kind of hold it there. And then if I wanted to put it on a different network, if I wanted to sell it somewhere else I could. I absolutely could do that.

Laura

19:04
Oh, interesting. I didn’t know you could transition.

Nikki

19:06
So if it’s not in your wallet now, is it just living on the marketplace you purchased it on?

Dave

19:13
Well, it’s living on their servers basically. So, I made that purchase from Nifty Gateway, kind of before I really knew a lot about what’s going on in the NFT marketspace in general. And I made that purchase because of somebody that I was listening to and following about the whole topic. And so it was more like out of support for them that I made that purchase, but NiftyGateway is a little weird. Like, where you would think everything should be hosted on a blockchain somewhere, NiftyGateway’s, the majority of what they’re doing is actually hosted on like Amazon’s s3 servers somewhere.

Nikki

19:52
Oh, that’s interesting.

Dave

19:53
It’s like everything that you see up front is all hosted on just a website, but everything that’s essential, like the important stuff, like the backend, the blockchain aspects, that’s all part of a blockchain. It’s just that they just host the website and the info up on Amazon’s s3, which is no different than what like Etsy is doing, right? Etsy is doing something similar. You’re putting stuff up there, it’s all available, you know. It’s just the blockchain stuff happens kind of in the background.

Laura

20:22
Got it. So we know that the NFTs kind of come from a kind of computer tech savvy background. So I know a lot of the first NFTs I saw were sort of like gaming trading cards and pixel-based art, not really traditional style. Right, Nikki?

Nikki

20:41
Yeah, but like, these days, you’re starting to see more artistic things, like, you know, a lot of them are just the little pixel based icons. But we’re starting to see more things like you’re doing some really creative more artistic things. And then there are people like Beeple, the one who sold, you know, his collection at Christie’s for $69 million.

Laura

21:07
How do we do that, Dave? Tell us how we do that.

Dave

21:09
Oh, man. If I knew the answer to that.

Nikki

21:11
Yeah, I don’t know how that happens. But then then there’s also the more like photographic ones, like we talked about Mick Gow and his photographs.

Dave

21:21
Yeah. So it really does; it really runs the gamut. And I still think we’re just barely at the very tippy top of the iceberg still, because what NFTs are going to end up being… Well, let me give an example. So recently, I went to a local concert here, a punk rock show, here at a local bar. I made that purchase through a website called Dice. It’s like a ticketing agency, basically, you know. And in that, like, I went there, and there was a picture of the the show poster, right, and it had all the information. And then when I made the purchase, it had like, a QR code, right? Now walk in, and I have my QR code, right? At some point, you’re going to have concerts that you go to or events you go to, movies you go to, conferences, and every single one of them is going to have a ticket that is an NFT. And the utility behind that NFT is your access to whatever it is that you’re attending. But the best part about – well, the best I don’t know, maybe the worst? I don’t know, it depends on your perspective. The good part about this, at least from my perspective, is that if I wanted to, at some point, when I’m attending one of these shows, where I did get an NFT, maybe it becomes valuable, and I can turn around and trade that to somebody else later down the road. Now they don’t get the utility of going to see the show. But you go see the Rolling Stones last show ever. You get an NFT for your efforts to go do that. You’re in control of something incredibly valuable. Right? Because they’re not performing at shows anymore. If Mick Jagger his untimely demise passes away.

Nikki

23:11
You think that’s gonna happen? I don’t think he’s gonna die.

Dave

23:13
No, he will. Keith Richards will definitely be living.

Laura

23:17
I feel like Keith Richards will be living forever, like that guy…

Dave

23:20
Exactly. Exactly. He’s the cockroach of the rock world.

Nikki

23:27
And there’s the quotable from this episode.

Laura

23:30
We love you, Keith, we love you.

Dave

23:33
That’s going to be the thing that, you know, it will become valuable like that. And it may be, you know, some people see that as a little bit dystopian, that it’s like, Oh, why does everything have to have some sort of tradable value? Or not everything will, right, but.

Nikki

23:49
No, but I mean, it’s it’s kind of like collecting some merch from a show that, you know, they’re not making anymore or you know, having an album that they’re not making anymore. Just a digital version of a collectible.

Dave

24:02
Exactly. Yeah. You can use it for a while and then give it to somebody else if you want to, you know, I mean, Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg gave out his recent album in NFT form. Cool, if you wanted to get it, you had to buy into it, right? And so at certain point, he’ll make more money because of residual income from that. And whoever had it in the beginning can turn around and sell it to somebody else for more, you know, or less depending on how the value goes.

Nikki

24:32
When you sell, when you resell on NFT doesn’t the original creator get a royalty?

Dave

24:38
If they’ve set it up that way, yeah, absolutely.

Nikki

24:41
You can set it up that way. So rather than if I just bought a physical record album or CD and I resell it, I might get a buck or two, but the artist gets nothing. So this way if I set it up so that when somebody resells my NFT I get a royalty then you can keep getting money from it.

Dave

25:02
Right? And that’s kind of one of the reasons why NFTs really became a big thing, especially in the art community, is because if I’m an artist and I have my work in a gallery, and I even if I sell out, I sell everything, I sell out, I make good money. And then I have another show in a year from then. And I have to go and make a whole bunch of new paintings to continually regenerate information. But let’s say that the people that, you know, like, I become insanely popular for whatever reason, and the people that bought my pieces, decided, you know, to sell them at Christie’s for whatever, you know, twice what they paid for him or whatever it could be to make a profit. I don’t see any of that. I don’t see any of that money. Christie’s get some.

Laura

25:44
I have a friend who just purchased a Banksy NFT. So Banksy released an NFT and released it such that it was thousandth or one ten-thousandth of a painting. And so you basically are owning one partition of that painting, which I thought was kind of interesting.

Dave

25:59
I think that’s interesting.

Nikki

26:01
It’s like buying shares.

Laura

26:04
Yeah, it’s it’s a strange thing. But I think you have to have a big audience for something like that. So you’re not gonna, nobody’s gonna want to buy one ten-thousandth of a Laura Lee Griffin original at this moment in time.

Dave

26:17
Well, I think like, only guys like Beeple and Banksy could probably get away with stuff like that. I mean, even these, you know, Bored Ape Yacht Club, probably wouldn’t even do that. But some of these NFTs are reaching, you know, really insane levels of revenue generation. I mean, the CryptoPunks, which are like, notably, some of them, the ones that really kind of caught fire with a lot of people, super simple, basic art, nothing fancy about them at all. They’re almost ironic and how they operate and compared to their value. But now there’s other services out there on the blockchain, where you can fractionalize that. So just like stocks, you buy into portions or shares of that NFT. So if you think the most rare…

Laura

27:08
Yeah, I think that’s kind of what this was.

Dave

27:09
Yeah. So it’s like that. I mean, it’s like you buy the most rare, or you buy shares of the most rare stuff, because you think it’ll go up in value at some point. And sometimes it goes horribly wrong, and you lose all your money.

Nikki

27:21
Well, yes, that happens too… All right, I would love for you to help us walk through from the very, very beginning, for our audience, what you need to do if you want to start selling NFTs of your art.

Dave

27:39
So, wow, that’s a big question. Okay. Well, cuz I just keep thinking about like, Okay, where do you want to go? But let’s just let’s just use…

Laura

27:48
Let’s just choose an easy one. Yeah.

Dave

27:51
Okay, so OpenSea is, is a non-curated marketplace, anybody can go there and start putting their NFTs up right away. It’s also one of the easiest to use right out of the gate. So you, obviously you start with your art, and then you go to OpenSea, and you just create an account. But before you can really get involved in what’s going on there, you’re going to need to have a crypto wallet. So a crypto wallet is, basically it’s just the place that you can securely store your cryptocurrencies. So your Ethereum.

Nikki

28:25
It’s almost like a bank account.

Dave

28:28
Yeah, essentially, yeah. So you can have your Binance coin, your Tezos coin, your Solana or your, you know, your whatever, all these different coins, all these hundreds of different coins out there, you know, you can have it in this wallet, but you have to have that wallet, because it’s kind of like your, it literally has an address, like a digital address. It’s like it’s the thing that the networks use to identify you to the NFTs. Because again, it’s not like you’re moving a physical thing. Everything is digital, everything is attached via data. And so this is your data point that says everything I own is here, right?

Laura

29:06
And so when you create that, where do you set that up? Is that something you set up on OpenSea, or you have to set that up separately?

Dave

29:13
You set it up separately, and like so, for instance, the most popular one out there is one called MetaMask, okay? And it can be used as, like a plugin through a Chrome browser. I think they even have it maybe for Firefox, but Chrome works a little bit better. You can also get an app on your phone that you can use it there. And so you set up your account, you get your you establish yourself with that account first. And then the very first time you get on to you know, you’d go to post something on OpenSea, you’re going to need to have some Ethereum in that wallet. Because it’s almost like even though you won’t get charged for every single NFT that you post up after the fact they want this initialization fee for your first time posting in NFT, because it’s like a, like, a little bit of a good faith effort that you want to be part of this. So you go and you invest in this a little bit. And you’ll you only pay like a small gas fee for doing that.

Nikki

30:17
Kind of like the way when you set up a new account, like with a credit card company or like PayPal, where they you know, make you pay $1, just to kind of confirm that…

Laura

30:31
You are who you say you are.

Dave

30:32
Yeah.

Nikki

30:33
Yeah. Is it like that?

Dave

30:35
It’s it’s sort of like that, except you’re actually I think in those circumstances, they’ll take that money and then they’ll put it back. But with OpenSea, this Ethereum exchange, you’re actually giving money to them, and they’re keeping it because it just goes to the network to basically say, hey, look, you know, use this because we spent some time on the network, here’s some money, that kind of thing. So in order to get Ethereum to your wallet, you’re going to need to buy some Ethereum, which you would buy through an exchange. So like, you’ve probably heard crypto.com, or you’ve heard of Coinbase, or there’s a couple of different exchanges that you can use Binance is another one, which I don’t, I don’t think you can use it in the US unless you use, I could be wrong about this, but Binance is one that you can use, but it may not be available in the US. And there’s some others, but Coinbase and crypto.com are pretty much the most common, most well known. So you buy your Ethereum on those platforms.

Laura

31:36
And you need Ethereum because OpenSea happens to be based on Ethereum?

Dave

31:40
Yes, okay, I think even in your initialization, it has to be Ethereum. You can sell through Polygon on OpenSea, and you will soon to be able to sell through Solana on OpenSea. But I think the initialization is always done through Ethereum. Don’t quote me on that, but I believe that to be the case. So you will need Ethereum to get to make that first transaction. So you buy your Ethereum on Coinbase, as an example, you have it available and you put it up, and you transfer it to your MetaMask wallet. And there’s a whole process behind that which you know, really nitty gritty stuff, right, so you transfer it up to MetaMask, and then it’s just sitting there in your MetaMask wallet, hopefully, perfectly secure. You don’t ever allow anybody access to it, you have very secure information that you’ve established with that MetaMask setup. You don’t ever want to share that with anybody, you know, absolutely do all your due diligence and research about it before you…

Nikki

32:36
Except us.

Dave

32:38
Yeah. Give your Sea phrases to me. I’ll take care of you buddy, I promise. So you have your stuff in your wallet. And then you go and you post your first NFT up on OpenSea and it says, Okay, do you want to make this contract exchange? And you say yes, and it says, Okay, this is going to cost you this much gas to do. And it’ll tell you exactly like in there, how much gas is going to cost you. And it might be just a few bucks, or it might be $100. It just depends on where the gas is at any given time because the gas fluctuates depending on the kind of strain that’s happening on the network. If you come in at a very high strain time, let’s say right now, if you went on the Ethereum network right now, it’s probably, the gas is probably pretty high. If you go at 3 in the morning and do that it might be a little bit less, right. So nothing good ever happens at 3 in the morning except buying NFTs.

Nikki

33:38
So would you recommend just kind of taking a look when you’re ready to set it up? And if it seems really high, going back at another time? Is that what you would do?

Dave

33:47
Yeah, I mean, I, I would keep tabs on it, you know, but you also need to understand what you may think is high is actually low. You know what I mean? Because you don’t, you may not necessarily have the perspective about what high is right? What do you mean is gonna cost me $13? That’s ridiculous. And I’d be like, I’m all in. Right?

Nikki

34:04
Yeah, yeah.

Dave

34:05
You know, it’s just, it’s just one of those things. What you can always do this is this is a hot tip that I give a lot of people. There’s a website called coinmarketcap.com. And at the top of CoinMarketCap, which it’s basically like imagine like Yahoo Finance, just for cryptocurrency. But at the very top and let me pull it up, just to make sure that I know exactly what I’m talking from, you know, an educated perspective here. At the very top, it has like a little bit of a some data that’s been, you know, constantly moved and changed. And one of the things is what gas is at right now.

Laura

34:43
It’s like your crypto ticker tape.

Dave

34:44
Yeah, exactly.

Nikki

34:45
Exactly, yeah.

Dave

34:46
So it’s pretty, it’s actually relatively low right now, at this exact moment. It’s only like, it probably cost you about $30 to do that initialization right now, roughly, at this exact moment, But then you might turn around and go back and say what he said it was 30, it’s like 400, you know?

Laura

35:09
Dangit, Dave.

Dave

35:10
I know. One time I was I went to go buy an NFT from somebody who, in fact, it was Mick’s, it was one of Mick Gow’s NFTs for his National Parks Project. I went to go purchase one. And the Ethereum was $1,500. It was it was six times the amount of the actual NFT that I was going to buy. I was like, Mick, I love you, but I can’t do it. I just can’t. I just can’t. So I missed my window on that. But yeah, so it’s a little bit of a you know, you roll the dice a little bit there. But if you go to one of these other marketplaces, like if you say I don’t want to be held hostage by a gas and all that, and I don’t want to be part of the problem with the, the environment, I’m going to go over to Solana or SoulArt or one of these other marketplaces, I’m going to go to Tezos and do it there. The gas fees, you still pay gas fee, but it’s pennies to do it, you can go to objkt.com, but it’s objkt.com. And that’s a Tezos network.

Nikki

36:16
Because who needs vowels?

Dave

36:17
Right? Who needs vowels, it’s so, we’re moving fast, we don’t have time for vowels. Well, there’s the first one, but anything after that, forget it, right? Like somebody wasn’t efficient enough for that first O in the beginning, so you go… And you can buy NFTs there for really inexpensive. I don’t know what Tezos is right now, but I bought some a while back and they were like, one Tez was four bucks, roughly.

Laura

36:43
That’s cheap.

Dave

36:43
So like, you could buy an NFT for $4. It’s kind of like, well, a lot of people post there, you know, with the idea that they’re just going to, they just want a low budget. I just want to trade NFTs I want to buy some from other people, I want to sell some to people, I want it to be just like, let’s just quick exchange artists to artist kind of thing. And you know, it’s a good place to, you know, just kind of get your feet wet with that plus over there, as opposed to like when you go to some of these networks, like OpenSea, when you see nothing but these, what they call profile pic-like types of NFTs which is like the apes, or the punks, or the bombs or whatever, you know, it all it’s just figurative pieces that all have like 10,000 generations of it. On Tezos it feels, it’s more one of one, right? Like, this is a piece of art that I’m putting up as NFT. And that’s it. Or they may have smaller, much smaller collections of like 10 or 20 or 100 of a particular one.

Nikki

37:46
Yeah.

Dave

37:47
So it just feels like it’s more authentic to the art in and not so much about just the exchange on the coin or the the objects or whatever.

Nikki

37:56
Right, how many different variations can we make so we can sell more?

Dave

37:59
Yeah.

Nikki

38:00
So let’s get back to, let’s get back to minting our NFTs. So we’ve got our wallet, we’ve got some Ethereum. We’re opened an account on OpenSea. And next, what do we do?

Dave

38:15
So you have your account, you go and you there’s a create button, you hit create. And it’s no different than posting up a listing on any other marketplace that you think of, right, you put it up on eBay, if you’ve done eBay, if you’ve done Etsy, you have a Shopify website, a Squarespace, it’s no different than that, right. You have a picture, you have a description, you put in some tags, some information, there’s a few, you know, pieces of information that are, you know, it’s exclusive to like NFTs and stuff like that, like you can add specific information within a text box there that says, hey, you bought this NFT, email me, you know, I’ll give you a virtual high five or something like that. Or you can put a link to a video that you made specifically for them or,

Nikki

39:00
Or a Calendly link to have a call with somebody or…

Dave

39:03
There you go. Yeah, right, or here’s, here’s a coupon code to my webshop, go there and get a free print, you know, or something like that, right? So you do that, you have that you put that all up as your piece. Oh, you also have to have a collection, you have to have at least one collection. So you establish a collection. And in that collection, that’s where you establish your royalty and some other data, right? So let’s say you have a 10% royalty, you have your collection and everything that’s in that collection that gets sold has that 10% royalty. So then you put that listing up and you push it into that collection. Right. And then it’s just there.

Laura

39:40
So you can just have one item in a collection.

Dave

39:42
Yeah, yeah. A friend of mine recommended that you start with one collection and then you just, and while you’re starting to establish yourself, just push everything into that one collection. And maybe after a while and you started to sell a few then you can go and create like, I’m going to create a derivative collection that’s all turtles in space, you know, just like off the top my head, right, it’s, uh, you know, you put a bunch of pictures of turtles in space and you have your turtles in space collection. But for the most part, just start like one collection, maybe label it yourself or label it as something relating to you that people will understand. And that way, it’s kind of like you’re pulling in the SEO juice from that. So people do go search up your name on, you know, OpenSea or whatever, then you know, there’s a higher chance that someone’s gonna find you, if they would do that. So you have the collection, you have the one listing in there, but it’s not really a listing, it’s really just a placeholder at this point. You go back into that placeholder after it’s already established. And then there’s a button that’ll say, sell, and you sell it, and another little dialog will come up, and you put a price based on Ethereum. So maybe it’s like, depending on, you know, wherever the price of Ethereum is, at any given time, it’s kind of a, it’s one of these things like, well, I put it at this price, I think it’s gonna sell for that much. But if Ethereum goes up, but Ethereum goes down, you know, so establish that price. And be reasonable.

Nikki

41:03
It’s gambling on both sides.

Dave

41:05
Right.

Laura

41:06
And isn’t it like a fraction? Because one Ethereum is worth a lot of US dollars, right?

Dave

41:10
Yeah. I mean, I don’t know what the price is. Let’s see what I’m looking at right here. Ethereum right now is…

Nikki

41:14
2700 right now.

Dave

41:15
$2700 right now. So it’s like, like, I have mine available right now for .05 eath, which is, I don’t know the math, but like, you know, somewhere, like 150 bucks for mine, right now, for my NFTs. And you could do it less, you could do it more if you want, okay, but you go and you sell it, and then you don’t, you know that as soon as you hit the button, you know, that’s, you know, that’s when it’s available for sale. It literally goes up, goes for sale, and people can come in and buy it if they want. And then and then they go and they pay their gas fee for that piece. And you have your mint, you have your purchase, you have your collector, and the, you know, there’s a percentage of sale that OpenSea takes, of course, which is like two and a half percent of whatever the sale is. And then your Ethereum, your leftover Ethereum goes directly to your wallet, just like that. And so now you have it, you have more Ethereum in there so you can make more purchases or make you know, or trade it back to your Coinbase and, you know, cash out if you want.

Nikki

42:21
Okay, cool. So you are now officially an artist selling NFTs on OpenSea.

Dave

42:28
Yes.

Nikki

42:28
Now, does it work sort of like Etsy does, if somebody wants to just browse the marketplace, they can type in some keywords, like, for example, I have a collection up on OpenSea of my birth month flowers that I drew. So it’s a collection of 12 different images. So if somebody goes in and searches for, you know, purple poppies, or you know, something that I’ve put in the keywords and then they might hopefully see mine. Do people do it that way? Or do they mostly, do they just browse and search looking for people? Or do they mostly go for, you know, people that they already know?

Dave

43:10
Well, so I can’t, personally, adequately speak to that, right? It’s tough to say.

Nikki

43:16
Who knows, right?

Dave

43:18
But here’s what I can see. If you go in and you go to the explore page. There’s like, you can look at explore collections. And they’ll be like the top collections. And if you just look at the top collections that are happening.

Nikki

43:30
Mm hmm.

Dave

43:31
What you see there is basically, what’s a lot of these profile pic ones, and it’s just, I think, at this point, because OpenSea is just massive, as far as like how many, you know, people are selling there, how many people are putting stuff up there, there’s like literally hundreds of thousands of new NFTs going up all the time. It can be incredibly difficult to be found that way, because of just how things get ranked. And, um, and I also think that people go there for different reasons than say they would go to Etsy to buy a piece of art. People are going to Etsy to buy a piece of art to put up on their wall. People are going to open see for this opportunity to get involved with somebody that they like. So they probably already have an established relationship with this person, or at least have been a fan of their work before. Or they found out through some discord server, some Twitter account that you know, like, Oh, I really, like you know, just going through scrolling through whatever’s happening on any one of these social networks, they see something that that strikes their interest, maybe they clicked hashtag NFT art on Instagram and your stuff popped up. And then that’s how they decided to go by your thing. So you’re more likely to get found outside of OpenSea and brought over to OpenSea than you are to be found on OpenSea itself.

Nikki

45:00
Okay, that makes total sense. So let’s talk about marketing NFTs. Would you market it the same way you would market any other art that you’re selling online?

Dave

45:12
Well, yes. Except for you know, like, sometimes I use Facebook ads, and you can’t use Facebook ads to sell NFTs. So, um, not yet at least, right? They have really strict rules against

Laura

45:25
Digital, right?

Dave

45:26
Yeah, yeah. Digital stuff. So, um, I think that, it’s a really tough question. It really is. Because the way that I’m seeing it right now is it’s almost like, there’s two main types of NFT buyers, or collectors if you will. Well, okay, there are the ones who are chasing them for their collectability. Mm hmm. So like, you know, they want to get in on Bored Ape Yacht Club, because they know that if they get in early, they can, you know, turn around and flip it, right.

Nikki

46:00
Right.

Dave

46:01
Or at least hold on to it as a as a secure amount of, you know, increase in you know, or investment or whatever. And maybe it’s not Bored Ape Yacht Club, maybe it’s one of these smaller projects that are just kind of coming up and they’re trying to get in early on it. Then there’s the artists, like the one of one artists or the people who are creating work, you know, more, you know, one at a time, or very small collections. And when those people are successful, because they felt the success, uh, you know, of the boom of NFTs, they’ll turn around and pay it back, right? Or they just, you know, there’s just kind of like this camaraderie amongst NFT artists, especially if you go on Twitter, I don’t see this so much on Instagram. But if you go on Twitter and really kind of interact with the NFT community there, you know, and be authentic and be real with them and you know, don’t shill and, you know, you can really kind of establish yourself in the community. And if you’re, you know, you’re active and prolific, you can build up a real good collection of people that are at least, if they’re not buying, they’re at least willing to share your stuff so that who knows what happens, like whoever might be looking at their tweets might turn around and buy from you. So, it’s so weird. It’s such a weird space to me.

Nikki

47:25
Oh, it is. It’s so weird. And it’s so new, and everybody’s still trying to figure it out. But you seem to, you seem to have gotten in and gotten in deep so that you know more than a lot of us.

Dave

47:39
Well, and you know, I think that’s part of it is that, I’ve sold well, I’ve sold a couple on objkt and I’ve sold one on OpenSea. So I haven’t sold a lot. But the way I look at this is that, at least for me, personally is like I just want to get it as as much information as I possibly can. Because I seem to be getting a lot of people asking me questions. And so it’s like, I just want to be as educated as I possibly can, so I can give good information and good advice to people, you know, at least to the limit that I’m capable, you know. The marketing one is a tough one because it’s like I can’t say that I’ve had a successful marketing trip on them obviously, because you know, I just haven’t sold any, but there are people or other people out there that that are doing basically what I’ve just shared and they seem to be doing alright, but it’s a crapshoot sometimes. I guess it just depends on how much energy you’re willing to spend on that thing. If you’re willing to go all in and really kind of do your good solid work on, you know, being part of that community then you have a real strong chance of, you know, doing really well. There is a there’s an artist that I follow, like I just know her as Kelly but she, you know, she was, she’s an Etsy artist, she would do like this kind of almost brutalist/folk art oriented work. And she’s, I mean, that’s basically what she still does. And she would sell okay on Etsy. But then she goes over to OpenSea, and she just blows up every time I go on Twitter, I feel like she’s selling like she’s selling two or three pieces a day and her pieces are not, you know, expensive. They’re not really but she’s just selling, selling, selling and sometimes it’s, it’s like, like resold, right? You know, secondary market stuff, right? So she’s just selling a crate, like she’s probably making three four times the amount of money now than she was when she was just selling original art on Etsy. So Kelly Moore, that’s her name Kelly Moore Art.

Laura

49:40
We’ll have to link to her in the show notes.

Nikki

49:42
That’s fantastic. And confounding.

Dave

49:45
Yes. 100% confounding. It’s lovely because, it may, it just gives you hope that like, Okay, well, you know, she it’s not like she’s some highfalutin gallery artist. You know, she’s, you know, she’s just, uh, you know, she just like, she’s us just doing better at this particular thing.

Nikki

50:06
Yeah.

Dave

50:06
So it’s possible.

Nikki

50:07
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Dave

50:09
There, you know, success leaves clues, right? So we just look and see what those are and follow that.

Nikki

50:14
So what specifically are you doing, though, to try to market yours? I know you’re talking… Just the fact that you’re talking about it so much is marketing for what you’re doing, but you’re sharing on Instagram, you’re doing YouTube… Oh, you’ve got your, you’ve got a free NFT class that, that I am in the middle of…

Dave

50:35
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, if they listen to this, they basically got the whole thing except for some visuals, but yeah. You know, I, I think that’s really I mean, that’s kind of my MO, in general, is that I’m just out here sharing the content as much as I possibly can, sharing as much insight as I can. Sharing technological knowhow, you know, from aspects of art and design, anything that I can learn, and I can turn around and share to somebody else, I do that as much as I possibly can. And the hope is, is that number one, I hope that people get engendered to me by that, and you know, like, they want to go buy something from me, whether it’s an NFT, or a piece of art, or a mug, or a tshirt, whatever, you know, but then there’s, you know, like, maybe they’ll buy into something else that I’m doing, you know, maybe it’s like, they come in and take a course, they follow up with, you know, some of the other projects that I’m working on. I’m just trying to put out good stuff out in the world. And, you know, not necessarily waiting for reciprocation.

Nikki

51:38
Hope some of that comes back to you.

Dave

51:40
Yeah, right. You know, that’s the best I can I can do at this point.

Nikki

51:43
Well, and that’s what we’re doing with the podcast, too.

Dave

51:46
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s, I think that that’s what it really comes down to is just putting out as much good stuff out in the world for other people, at least for me, this is just how it seems to be my success lane, my, you know, my, my path or whatever, to just, you know, kind of just be as helpful as I possibly can. And people reward me by buying stuff from me.

Nikki

52:10
Awesome. So what would you suggest to people who are listening, who… so most of our audience are just getting started. They’re mostly still trying to figure out their place in the art and design world and where they want to go. Would you recommend that anybody just give it a try?

Dave

52:30
Yeah, I mean, I don’t see why not. I mean, if you really break it down, aside from all the technological hurdles that you have to go through to get there, if you’re open minded and willing to, you know, to put in a few hours into this just to kind of get yourself educated and be be smart enough to not make financial mistakes…. and it’s not a ton. It’s not like you’re investing…

Nikki

52:53
Don’t spend your $69 million on NFTs.

Dave

52:56
Right. It’s, you know, it’s just, I think it’s just, you know, do a little bit of due diligence in that respect. But other than that, it’s no different than any other place that you would operate, right? Again, it’s no different than if you wanted to go and sell your work through Art America, it’d be the exact same thing. Or if you wanted to sell, you know, whatever you want to sell on Etsy, or whatever, you know, Amazon Merch or whatever, you just do your due diligence to find out what’s the best approach to that. Now, should you, you know, like, should you do this one thing, then that thing, and then this one thing, and then that thing? I mean, that’s me. That’s what I do. Which is probably part of the reason why, you know, like, like, I haven’t moved as far as I can with NFTs. But that’s just because I just, I love to absorb new information of all these different things so that I can turn around and share with other people.

Laura

53:50
I’m the same way, Dave.

Dave

53:52
Yeah, it’s just, I think we’re just like, some of us are just bred that way, you know, just built that way. But if you’re trying to build something, like establish yourself someplace, you know, put a good foothold in, then yeah, I think you would go all in, or at least 80% in to this thing. And be, you know, do everything you can to be good at it and be okay with, with number one, probably sucking for a very long time. And number two, maybe not selling much for a while. But if you stick to it, and you push forward and you keep building it, then you can be like, like our friend Kelly, who is now selling a piece every day at least.

Nikki

54:29
Amazing.

Dave

54:30
And she’s selling them. Let’s just see, let’s just do some due diligence on Kelly right now. Let’s see Kelly Moore Art, I think, is who she is on Twitter.

Nikki

54:41
We’ll confirm that and make sure that we put it in the show notes.

Dave

54:44
Yeah, she is, let’s see what’s the last sale, let’s see.

Nikki

54:49
And then while you’re looking that up, I just wanted to also ask. Let’s talk just for a second about copyright. If you’re selling this digital ownership to this digital version of some of your art, you retain the copyright, right?

Dave

55:05
Yes.

Nikki

55:06
They can resell their NFT, which is just like an electronic version of it, but they don’t have reproduction rights, ccorrect?

Dave

55:15
Correct. Well, and you can establish that, like, if you, if you wanted to put in that what do you call it, the smart contract? If you wanted to do that you could.

Nikki

55:23
You would have to specifically give permission for that. The default is that they are not buying copyright, correct?

Dave

55:30
That’s correct. That’s absolutely 100%. Correct. All they’re buying is the smart contract. Really, again, it goes back to the NFT really is just the data. Right? It’s, it’s the bits that the ones and zeros that are behind it, that’s what you’re buying into. The picture just happens to be the widow dressing. So yeah, but yeah, but if you do establish something in the contract that says you can have rights to do this, you can reproduce this if you want. Yeah. So Mark Mason, who’s the author who’s written a few books, like, the subtle art of not giving a fuck? Sorry, if I can’t say that on that. You can bleep that out. But

Nikki

56:06
You can. Laura doesn’t, but I do.

Dave

56:12
He was having a conversation, I think it was with Gary V. And he was talking about how he was thinking about taking some of the most notable quotes out of the book and putting them up for available as NFTs. And what he was going to allow is that people would buy them and then be able to use them, they have ownership over that quote.

Nikki

56:31
Oh, that’s cool.

Dave

56:32
Yeah, they still have to put his name on it. But you know, you know,

Nikki

56:35
Mark Manson.

Dave

56:37
Yeah. So you put it on a shirt, you know, and you could sell it you have, you know, the rights to do that. And you could. If you wanted, you know, that’s just one way to do it.

Nikki

56:48
Yeah, that’s kind of cool.

Dave

56:50
Yeah.

Nikki

56:51
So it’s up to the artist, you can retain the copyright totally yourself, or you can give any kind of license you want to somebody that buys it. It’s up to you.

Dave

57:01
Right. And, you know, and there’s even the music artists who are giving away portions of their royalties on particular songs, like their, their NFT, their royalties for a song for however, you know, in perpetuity. And so you buy into it, and you get a small portion of whatever that particular song or album or whatever they are, and they’re putting out there that you put you, you get a portion of that. And so they get an influx of cash to put out the music that they want, you get to have some royalties on top of that. But let’s say you’re like, Okay, well, that was fun, but I’m gonna turn around and sell it to somebody else, well, then you get a little bit profit for that. And then the artists, the musical artists, they’re still getting a residual royalty on that. So that sale, they still get a royalty on top of that.

Nikki

57:52
That’s some Inception stuff going on there.

Dave

57:54
Seriously, right? For sure. And by the way, Kelly just sold a piece, well it was probably yesterday, she may have sold some since but the last post is .08eth, which is roughly $250, maybe something like that. $200. So she and she’s doing that every single day. So she’s she’s doing all right, yeah, that’s not so shabby. That’s so shabby at all right?

Laura

58:18
We hate to do this, but we’re going to have to start wrapping up. And one of the questions we like to ask is for somebody who is just getting started in NFTs, what’s one piece of advice you could give them?

Dave

58:33
Do your homework. It really is that like, just, it’s going to be technologically challenging, right? But if you just put in the energy to learn about it, and not just learn about NFTs, but learn about the cryptocurrency that’s behind that NFT. I know so many artists who they know everything they can know about how to put stuff and operate on OpenSea, but they don’t know a lick about how cryptocurrency works. Now you don’t have to become a financier, you know, or like a you know, financial expert or whatever this, you could just learn enough to just at least get yourself secure enough to understand what’s going on. Because it’s super easy to make mistakes. And because you’re playing with money, and not just like, you know, I can go and put all the listings I want on Etsy and it only cost me 20 cents each. Right. But when I’m making exchanges with this with you know, my buy on Coinbase, and I put it up in a wallet, and I transfer that over to OpenSea and and do all that there’s… even for me, like whenever I do this, I still get this slight bit of anxiety as I’m doing it because it’s not like I get paid from somebody on something I do. And that I can all I gotta do is move it to my bank, and I’ve got the money in my bank, right? That’s easy. It’s so easy. It’s like… in retrospect, if we told ourselves back when we were first getting, you know, like when I was an 18 year old and you told me, Hey, this is how you’re going to be operating money in 30 years, 40 years, I’ll be like, What, are you out of your mind?

Nikki

1:00:12
Two years ago.

Dave

1:00:14
Right? Yeah. So yeah, just educate yourself. Just get as much information as you possibly can. And if you have questions, find good places to get those questions answered. You know, there’s plenty of resources.

Nikki

1:00:28

Dave

conrey.com.

Dave

1:00:32
Okay, I don’t want to be that responsible. I am not a financial advisor. You know, this is not financial advice.

Laura

1:00:38
Disclaimer.

Dave

1:00:39
Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer. There’s plenty of people out there to offer, you know, sharing up good information, one of them, especially when it comes to cryptocurrency, or there’s a YouTuber called Whiteboard Crypto. And it can be a little heady at first, when you go in there, a little bit, a little bit deep, right. But I think they, he does a really good job of explaining all of this stuff, in as simple terms as he possibly can. And he does it with like, illustrations and whiteboard art. And he’ll relate things to, like, he’ll relate things that are happening in the crypto space, or the NFT space to things that, you know, that we understand in our real world scenarios.

Nikki

1:01:21
Oh, that’s good.

Dave

1:01:22
So, so that’s just one example. You know, but it’s, when you first get in there, it’s gonna be like, I just like… mind numbing, like, all the different nomenclature, all the, the terminology, just everything is just gonna be like, Oh, my God, this is so esoteric, and I just like, it’s gonna be overwhelming at first. But if you just put some due diligence in and you’ll get it figured out, I’m using that phrase a lot. But if you just you do it, you do it often enough, you just kind of be okay with not understanding. But just, you know, making notes, I need to understand what that means more, and go back and try and find that out. You just, it’s the best thing you could possibly do. And then once you’ve, once you’ve gotten past that first hurdle of getting your youth Ethereum, getting your initialisation started on OpenSea, it gets easier, it gets easier really quickly.

Nikki

1:02:17
Yeah. Well, Dave, thank you so much for coming back and chatting with us all about this crazy new world of NFTs, we really appreciate it.

Laura

1:02:27
We do.

Dave

1:02:27
Happy to share as much as I can. So this said, the thing is this information could be completely out of touch and out of date a year from now everything could change. Who knows?

Laura

1:02:39
That’s true. That’s true.

Nikki

1:02:40
note to our editor. Yeah, they got this up pretty quickly before it’s obsolete.

Laura

1:02:45
Well, Nikki and I are going to create some of our own NFTs just to learn about that experience in that process. So for anyone else who’s interested in the same, join our Facebook group, where we’ll be hosting a private Facebook Live all about our own experience. To read today’s show notes, go to startistsociety.com/nfts.

Nikki

1:03:11
And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, we’d love for you to leave us a five star rating and a review. Reviews help us reach more Startists like you and keep us inspired to create new episodes.

Laura

1:03:21
Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next week.