74 – Getting Gallery Representation with Jhina Alvarado

Laura

00:01
Are you a fine artist interested in having your artwork in galleries? Are you confused about where to even start with getting gallery representation? Well, today’s guest is going to share her journey with you from how she developed her painting style over the years to getting her work in multiple galleries across the US. We learned a ton from this conversation with Jhina Alvarado and we know that you will too. We cover everything from when to know when you’re ready, to the ins and outs of working with a gallerist, the financials, marketing, shipping, exclusivity, how to know which galleries to avoid and much more. So let’s dive in. Hi, this is Laura Lee Griffin.

Nikki

00:47
And this is Nikki May with Startist Society, inspiring you to stop getting in your own way and start building an art business and life that you love.

Laura

00:56
We are artists who believe strongly in the power of community, accountability, following your intuition, taking small actionable steps and breaking down the barriers of fear and procrastination that keep you stuck.

Nikki

01:10
Follow along with us on our creative business journey as we encourage you on yours.

Laura

01:20
Jhina Alvarado is a prolific self taught artist who is represented by galleries across the United States. Her work has been featured in international and national magazines, blogs, and art technique books.

Nikki

01:34
I met Jhina close to I think 15 years ago at the International Encaustic Conference in Massachusetts when we were randomly assigned to be roommates. And it’s been super fun to see her work change and grow and develop since then. Her primary mediums are oil and encaustic. She works part time as a calculus teacher and paints full time in her home studio in San Francisco, while also raising the two most adorable six year old twins.

Laura

02:03
Wow, another right brain left brain person. I love it. Jhina, welcome to the Startist Society. We’re so excited to chat with you today.

Jhina

02:12
Hello, I’m happy to be here and excited to talk to you both.

Nikki

02:15
It’s so good to see your face after…

Jhina

02:18
15 years?

Nikki

02:19
Yeah, really. So we like to start our interviews with hearing about your Startist story. I know you’ve done a wide variety of things in your life, from teaching, and I know when we met you are making music and doing encaustic painting and now you’re mostly doing oil paintings with some encaustic. So tell us how you got started and how you got to where you are today.

Jhina

02:49
Well, I’ve always done art, but never actually did art. Like I would do it every once in a while and not actually do a lot of painting. For some reason, I just couldn’t get myself to paint every single day. I had a friend who would basically tell me that I was a waste of talent. Because I could paint. Yeah, it wasn’t – she meant it in a nice way. Yeah, but I, you know, could paint and I could paint really well, but I wasn’t doing anything with my art. And so one day, I randomly decided to take a class with Hylla Evans, and it was an encaustic class. And I had actually no idea what encaustics was at that point. So I took a class with her just to get myself painting again, and just fell in love with wax. And she liked me and took me on as her little apprentice and would you know, just give me wax and give me a bunch of tools, and she just encouraged me. And then she kind of strong armed me into joining the encaustic group. I can’t even remember the name. It’s been so long. But also to go to the encaustic conference where I met you. And so I went there, and back then I was doing more abstract stuff. I was doing drawings of leaves and then doing multiple layers of these drawings in between wax and creating this depth with it. So it was pretty abstract.

Nikki

04:26
It had a really sort of atmospheric quality.

Jhina

04:31
And so I was doing that for a while. And then and this happens to all happens also, whenever I do music where I feel like I’m not really doing art, like I’m making this art, but I’m not really an artist and it started to feel like I was just an assembler, you know, I was just putting things together and so I really went through this whole crisis of, okay, I don’t feel like I’m an artist. I just, I’m a collage person. And so I decided that I was… and this is around 2009 that I was going to challenge myself and really challenge myself, which, for me, that meant painting people. I’d never painted people before 2009, and it always seemed like this impossible thing that I just wasn’t able to do. So I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna make myself paint people. But I still liked the wax. And I wasn’t sure how was how I was going to incorporate the wax with these paintings. And so I was basically doing these black and white images of people. Because I didn’t want to complicate it with color, because I figured, you know, it’s hard enough to do people, I’m gonna put off doing any sort of color till later.

Nikki

05:47
I think that’s a great way to learn.

Jhina

05:49
Yeah, and my friend had bought a grocery bag full of old photos from a flea market. And to me that just seemed really sad. Like, this is somebody’s memories and somebody’s past that another person just sold. And he bought for five bucks. Like he bought a grocery bag full of them for $5.

Nikki

06:11
Wow.

Jhina

06:12
And there were some really incredible photos in there. And so I started drawing those and painting those photos. And it just became this thing where like, I was drawing these people, and it felt like I was also kind of being intrusive into their past. So I wanted a way to make these photos or these paintings into something that was more universal, you know, because to me, it always seems weird. Why would somebody want to buy another person’s portrait? That still feels weird to me. Like, why would anybody want somebody else’s portrait hanging in their house?

Nikki

06:48
Some random person they don’t know. Yeah.

Jhina

06:50
Exactly. So I started putting these bars over their eyes, and I’m like, okay, is this gonna be creepy or not. And at that time, I had one gallery representation, I had a Stephanie Breitbard Fine Arts, and she randomly found me through open studios. And that was back when I was doing the leaf paintings and she really liked them. And so I showed them to her, and I’m like, is this creepy? Or is this? Am I onto something? And she’s like, No, I don’t find them creepy at all. I think you’re onto something. And so I started putting these bars over these, the eyes of these images of other people’s memories, and it kind of took off from there where, you know, people started to really react to them. And I started getting all these galleries wanting to sell my art. And you know, and people always asking, why are you putting these bars over their eyes? That was like the the big question, I must have answered that question, at least, you know, thousands of times. And basically, it was so that once we cover the eyes, these images weren’t a specific person’s memories about a specific person, it was now something more universal, because you couldn’t see the eye. So it could be anybody. And the thing that I loved about my art at that time, was that people would come up to me and say, Oh, my God, that looks just like my great art, or that looks like my mom, you know, I have an image of my mom doing the same thing. And so it kind of bonded people to my paintings, because they could relate more to them. And so I did that.

Nikki

08:23
Whereas if they could see the whole face, it would be somebody else. It wouldn’t be Oh, that’s my aunt.

Jhina

08:29
Yeah, it would be some strange person. Yeah. So I started doing that for a while, and then that got old. And I wasn’t sure what to do. Because once you’re in a gallery, and you’re known for specific art, or a type of painting, you know, they don’t really want you to change because that they know that that sells, you know, so it’s right, hard to then find something else that you want to do that people are going to react to in the same sort of way. And so, you know, I started painting the same, you know, vintage images of people, but using color blocks. And I was showing their eyes and just like, I thought people don’t want random people’s portraits in their house, like these paintings didn’t sell. And my galleries were like, you know, yeah, we’re not really into these. There’s nothing special about these paintings. And so, you know, I worked for a while and trying to figure out what am I going to do next? And I ended up doing this, I just love vintage photos. And so for me, that was still going to be happening, like I just couldn’t get past wanting to do vintage photos, and vintage images, especially of old Hollywood. Like I love the clothes, and I love…

Laura

09:50
The glamour.

Jhina

09:50
Yeah.

Nikki

09:51
And you paint them beautifully.

Jhina

09:53
Why, thank you. So I started doing those images, but instead of putting the the bars over the eyes, I was cropping the images so that you couldn’t see the eyes. So it was basically from the nose down. And it would be mostly about the the clothing and, you know, the the hand gestures and stuff. And then I was doing these kind of patterned wallpaper, backgrounds that were in color. So it was black and white images with colored backgrounds. And back then it was just like one color, you know, patterned backgrounds, and it’s since evolved to like multiple colors. Somebody once told me that I was basically a cross between Kehinde Wiley and Amy Sherald, because I was doing the black and white images of people, but with a colored background. I’m like, oh, yeah, I could see where, where you get that. So that’s where I was, not that long ago. And even then, as I was doing these, it started to feel like, okay, I’m, I’m starting to get predictable. It’s starting to feel like I’m doing the same thing over and over again. And what am I gonna do to make me feel like an artist, like make me feel like I’m not just doing the same thing, because I never really understood how artists could do the same thing over and over and over again, and not evolve, you know, and that, to me, seemed kind of boring and stagnant. So I started doing these, I call them passion projects, because for me, they were side projects that I figured, if they don’t sell, it’s okay, because I’m doing these for me to help me feel like a better person and a better artist, and to just challenge myself more. So the first passion project that I did was of my students. I teach at Ruth Asawa School of the Arts. And I teach math there and I, these students, they are amazing. They know who they are, they are very vocal about it. We have a lot of gay students, trans students, students who are political, students who are out there protesting and this was back when, you know, right before Trump, so there was a lot of things happening, and they were out there protesting and they were very vocal about who they were and how they wanted to be referred to. Like, before that I never even knew about pronouns and like, the they pronouns, you know, it’s like, oh, wow, like I learned so much from my students. And so I was doing these portraits of them, their whole face, and just really zoomed up on their face with really high contrast shadows that I was taking in my classroom, but with their eyes closed. And the whole thing about that was basically these kids, you know, they are so vocal, and they act like adults, and they have adult ideas, but they’re, they’re still children. You know?

Nikki

13:01
What age kids are these?

Jhina

13:03
They were high school students, so a lot of juniors and seniors that I did images of, or paintings of. And so when kids are asleep, and their eyes are closed, they’re very angelic. And we are reminded of, no matter how crazy they are, during the day, and my kids are, my own children are super active and spirited and crazy during the day, but when they’re asleep, they look so angelic. And you remember, oh, yeah, these are just kids, you know, no matter how much they drive you crazy, they’re just kids. And so I was doing these paintings of my students with their eyes closed, kind of in that sense of, you know, if they were sleeping, that’s when you are reminded that no matter what they are doing during the day, and how vocal they are, and how adult-like they are, they’re still kids, you know, and so I did 35 of those pieces. The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative ended up buying 30 of them. And it’s now hanging in their offices. So that was my first passion project. And once again, I didn’t think anybody would really react to them, or, you know, but one of my galleries decided that they wanted to show it over at the San Francisco Art Fair. And then it started to become a thing where they were showing whatever passion project I had, they would show it during the Art Fair.

Nikki

14:24
Wow. Nice.

Jhina

14:25
So that was nice.

Nikki

14:26
That’s amazing, yeah.

Jhina

14:28
But the next series that I did was all on black children, because, you know, my twins are black. And the thing that is so upsetting about black children, and is that how people view them, and they’re viewed as very cute and adorable when they’re young. But once they hit a certain age, like around 13, then they are seen as threats, you know, and people start to become afraid of them and so I started painting children with superhero masks and basically a target behind them, but with the idea that, you know, these kids could be heroes, these kids could be presidents, they could be, you know, doctors, lawyers, they could be anybody, if they were given the chance, if people would see them as potential heroes, as opposed to potential threats. Yeah, so I did a bunch of paintings of –- I started with my children. And then I just started painting, you know, all of these, these black children who, you know, beautiful black children who could be anybody and could be anything that they wanted to be…

Nikki

15:45
If given a chance.

Jhina

15:46
Yeah, exactly. So, you know, like I said, I’ve been doing a lot of passion projects on the side, and that is what basically keeps me feeling like I’m progressing, I’m not stagnant. I’m not just doing the same thing over and over again. And I still do you know, the other paintings and I still do commissions, and those are basically what pays the bills. It’d be great if these passion projects also paid the bills. But um, for me, they’re more about me, expressing myself and learning and changing and growing. And with this pandemic, recently, I started doing paintings of mothers, with their children. And they had these veils over them. Because, you know, throughout this whole pandemic, we’re the ones that have had to give up so much to care for our children, to care for our households, we’re working from home, and we’re still you know, making sure our kids are learning, and that everything is still as normal as possible when it’s not normal, you know, and these veils basically, to me represented, okay, so we’re here, we’re doing all these things, but are we really seeing like, are people really understanding how much we’ve had to take on and how much we’ve had to do in order to make sure that our kids are okay, and especially, you know, mothers of color with all the Black Lives Matter stuff and the Asian hate stuff that’s been happening, like, it’s been really hard, you know, and I’m an Asian woman who has had to deal with watching my community being targeted and being hurt, and also raising black children and having to worry about, you know, them growing up, especially my son, it’s really scary to be a parent of black children right now, you know, knowing that they could, they could die for something as stupid as having a toy gun.

Nikki

17:49
Right? Or jogging in the wrong neighborhood?

Jhina

17:52
Yeah, yeah. It’s super scary, you know, and having those conversations with my kids, and you know, my son, who’s especially sensitive and especially observing, he’ll ask me things like, you know, why do cops hate brown people? Why are they shooting brown people? You know, and he’s six? So, yeah, so these paintings of mothers were basically, me showing how much we’re strong people who are trying our best to raise our children, and not really being seen. And, you know, I guess, given credit for all that we’ve been doing. So that’s the recent passion project that I’ve been working on lately.

Nikki

18:37
I believe there’s one of you in there isn’t there?

Jhina

18:39
Yes, there is. Which is funny, because my dad actually really hates that painting.

Nikki

18:45
Really?

Jhina

18:45
Yeah. Cuz he’s, like, you look so sad, and the kids look so sad. And you know, and, and you’re not a sad person. And I had it as my profile pic for a while. He’s like, you need to change that you need to put something that’s more reflective of you. And so I think it’s hilarious because I showed it to him and he’s like, it looks like you, but I don’t like it. I really don’t like this.

Nikki

19:07
Well, but it gets the message across.

Jhina

19:09
Yeah, exactly. And I actually have another friend who showed her family the portrait, and they’re like, it looks like you but we’re so used to you being this happy go lucky, you know, woman and this doesn’t show that, you know, but I’m like, that’s the point. You know, we, underneath everything, underneath those happy exterior, we’re having to battle so many things and having to deal with so many things in order to make sure that our kids are growing up happy and growing up, you know, as normal as possible during not normal times.

Nikki

19:41
Right. Right.

Laura

19:42
Yeah. It’s kind of the challenge of a lifetime, isn’t it right now? Something we never anticipated?

Jhina

19:46
Yeah, yeah, it’s been, it’s been crazy. And now with Omicron going on, it’s like, Okay, do I send my kids back to school? You know, do I… I’m supposed to be going to Mexico for my 50th birthday coming up, and now I’m like, Okay, is that a good idea? Should I go, you know, is it responsible? And there’s just so many things to think about. And it’s crazy. It really is crazy.

Nikki

20:12
Yeah, so along the same lines, but changing up just a little bit. I always like to ask people, how they juggle all the different things in their lives and how, what’s the balance between… I know that you used to teach full time and paint on the side. But I noticed when you, the way you talk about it, now you’re painting full time and teaching part time?

Jhina

20:35
Yeah.

Nikki

20:36
And I think you’ve actually, you’ve gone back and forth a few times with that, how are you juggling that stuff, balancing that stuff. And the whole COVID and your kids at home? And…

Jhina

20:47
It’s, it’s not easy. It is definitely not easy. It was hard when we were working from home, and the kids weren’t in school, and I wasn’t in school, in person, and having to do all that from home. And so, you know, when I was teaching, my husband would watch the kids while he was working, because, I’m sorry, having twins do kindergarten on Zoom. Like they lasted 15 minutes, if we were lucky, you know, like, they basically didn’t go to kindergarten, because, you know, they went, they were doing Zoom, and there’s no way you’re gonna keep kids on a computer listening to a teacher, like, if it’s a video game, or YouTube, my daughter would be on there 24/7. But even my son, after, you know, a couple of hours, he would get bored, but like to listen to a teacher and watch somebody, you know, teach them on Zoom. 15 minutes was the most that they could do. And so he would watch the kids while I taught. And then I would watch the kids afterwards. And then at four o’clock, he would then take over with the kids and I would go down to my studio, and I’m fortunate that I have my studio downstairs from me. So you know, it’s, it’s an easy commute. But, you know, I would be down there and I would basically not have dinner with my kids. And I wouldn’t see them. And so I would be down there from four till about seven, eight o’clock, come upstairs, put them to bed. And then I would have my downtime, you know, which by then I’m exhausted, my downtime basically means I’m going to sleep. So that was not fun. And it was super exhausting.

Nikki

22:30
Hey, sleep is a great hobby.

Jhina

22:32
I love sleep. Yeah. So you know, that’s what we were doing for a while, and then they went back to school and I went back to work. And I’m fortunate that I can, you know, teach. I’m basically 80% instead of 100% full time.

Nikki

22:49
Okay, so that’s, that’s more than just part time, though.

Jhina

22:53
True. But so I work at a school of the arts and the way that they run it is academics are in the morning, and then arts are in the afternoon. And so, you know, three days a week, I’m done teaching by 11 o’clock.

Nikki

23:09
Oh, that’s fantastic.

Jhina

23:10
And two days a week I’m done teaching at one. And while I’m supposed to stay at school, you know, for my prep and stay there whatever 80% of the time is I basically I’m like, You know what, I’m leaving. I’m, you know, I do my job. I do it well, my kids are learning, I’m well prepared. I’m not going to hang out at school just to hang out at school because I was supposed to be here for a certain number of time. And I’m sure my admin know it, at this point, I think they’re just happy that they have teachers, because there’s such a teacher shortage. So I come home and I paint and I paint until my kids get out of aftercare, which is you know, they usually get home around six, and then you know, it’s hang out with my kids and put them to bed, and so right now it’s working. I teach two classes a day, I come home, I paint, I then pick up my kids, we have dinner, you know, we hang out for a little bit, and then it’s bedtime. And we do it all over again. You know, and on weekends, my husband is really nice, and he you know, he’ll at least give me Saturday where I can get up in the morning and paint until, you know from like nine to like three o’clock. And then I you know, so those days are always really nice because, you know, I I like getting out of bed and not changing my clothes, not brushing my teeth or doing anything; just like today. And just going downstairs and painting you know that to me… Yeah, that’s pretty much every day for me since I started working at home in 2003. Nice. Yeah, it’s you know, sometimes I’m like, is it even worth taking a shower at this point? It’s like three o’clock, like, the day is almost over Yeah, so yeah, so that’s basically how I juggle it, you know, and there’s been some days where I have a deadline where I have a big show, and I have to paint during the night, you know, and I’ll paint until I have to go to bed and I don’t see much of my kids during that time, I see them in the morning, basically. And, you know, that’s hasn’t happened much with COVID, because nobody’s doing solo shows at this point. But yeah, you know, you do what you have to do. And for me, you know, any moment that I can paint, I paint and so when people were like, oh, you know, you have some downtime, what are you gonna do? I’m like, I’m gonna paint, like, that’s, that’s all I ever do whenever I have extra time. And so yeah, I’ve been called a machine before. I’ll do it tomorrow.

Laura

25:52
You’re pretty prolific, I looked at all of the collections that are on your website, and it’s really impressive. We’ll definitely link to those, because we’ve talked about some of the different styles that you’ve had over the years. So we can link to those so people can see the visuals that go with this episode. But that is something interesting when we talk about, you know, style and how your style has progressed. And one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you today was because you have gallery representation, and not just one gallery, but multiple galleries. And we know that a lot of our listeners might be interested in having their artwork in galleries, but they’re still in those starting phases. So we’d love to learn a little bit more from you about how that first gallery representation started, I think you mentioned you had these beautiful leaves and someone was attracted to that, maybe you can tell us a little bit more about that. And then how that progressed to the other galleries.

Jhina

26:47
Okay, so for a while, you know, when I first started painting, I didn’t have any gallery representation, you know, like most people, and I was doing open studios, I was entering any sort of, you know, juried art show that I could get into and, you know, just kind of building my resume that way. And so the first gallery that I got was Stephanie Breitbard Fine Arts, and she still represents me, although now as Simon Breitbard Fine Arts. But she basically came to my Open Studios, and she saw my work, and she liked it. And this was back when she had a gallery out of her house, she was basically having clients come to her house, and look at work and selling it out of her house. And then she’s now grown. She’s got, they now have two galleries, one in Menlo Park, one in San Francisco. And so I started off with her. And from there, you know, people started seeing my artwork there. And once the whole social media stuff started, and having websites, you know, were easy to have, like, it became so much easier to get galleries because other artists were seeing my work. And the way that I got most of my galleries was from having other artists like my work and saying, Hey, I really like your work, I think my gallery would like your work also, and then they would show my work to them and then I would get, you know, galleries that way. I think out of all the galleries that I’ve ever had only one did I get from submitting work and saying, hey, you know, doing that cold call of, You know, I like your gallery and here’s my work and I think it’d be a good fit and I only had one gallery actually respond to that and she actually responded within seconds, which I think was funny and emailed me and said yes, you know, I would love some of your work. But for the most part it’s been you know, other artists liking my work, gallerists going to other galleries, seeing my work there and liking it. You know, at least every year I get two to three galleries emailing me saying hey, you know I saw your work online or I saw your work at another gallery or you know, sometimes they don’t even say anything and you know, I think that your work would be a good fit with my gallery. Let’s give it a try. And you know, they don’t always, they don’t all work out you know, I’ve had a lot a lot of galleries show my work and they all don’t work out. Show your work there, sometimes work sells, sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes there’s a market for your stuff there, sometimes there isn’t and you know, and if it doesn’t work out, you say okay, thank you, you know, thanks for giving it a try. And then you move on to the next gallery that wants to try you out. You know, I have two galleries that have basically have shown my work, have sold my work throughout my whole career and that is Simon Breitbard Fine Arts and ArtHous. ArtHous has always shown my work from pretty much from the beginning. Maybe not from the same beginning as Simon Breitbard, but you know, within a year or two of that, and…

Nikki

30:03
Are both of those galleries in your local area?

Jhina

30:06
Yes, ArtHous is in San Francisco. And so as Simon Breitbard, she lives in Mill Valley. So originally, she was showing my work in Mill Valley. But now it’s shown in Menlo Park and in San Francisco. And then ArtHous has now gone more virtual. And so the two owners, one owner moved to Palm Springs. So now he’s showing my work in Palm Springs.

Nikki

30:30
Oh, I can so see your work in Palm Springs.

Jhina

30:32
And the other owner is still in San Francisco. So, you know, but yes, they they are my local galleries. And they basically are the ones that sell the most paintings of mine. And people in the Bay Area tend to like my work more than other places. But I seem to sell more work here, then east coast or even in Southern California.

Nikki

30:54
Interesting.

Jhina

30:55
Yeah, it’s it’s been interesting to see

Nikki

30:56
I have a zillion questions based on everything you just said, but I’m going to try to take this in a certain order. So I want to go back to getting started with galleries. You were super fortunate that somebody happened to come to your open studio and see your work and love it, and that’s amazing. But I know that you’ve also done approaching galleries. So our listeners, for the most part are in the getting started phases. And we talk a lot about the fear of getting started knowing when you’re ready. So how would you recommend getting started and knowing when you’re ready and making those first approaches?

Jhina

31:39
Well, the thing that people need to understand is that when you are going to show in a gallery, you have to have a really big body of work, because they’re going to expect five to 10 pieces generally, you know, so you need to be able to have at least that many pieces that are consistent, and in style, and in quality in order to give that to them. And let’s say another gallery decides that they want you, well, they’re going to need that amount of paintings also. So having a large body of work is always good, because one, you’re painting, and you’re developing your style, you’re developing the quality of your work. And you’re also building a body of work so that galleries can have a large amount of paintings when they need it and when they want it. And so if you have more than one gallery, you know, you probably need easily 20 paintings, you know, and so having that large body of work, if you only have a couple of paintings, it’s not going to be worth you approaching galleries, because you’re not going to be able to provide the work for them.

Nikki

32:47
That’s a good tip, for sure.

Jhina

32:49
So having a large body of work; having a large, consistent body of work. And then just making sure that you’re posting it everywhere. Because once people start liking your work, and especially other artists, starting, following other artists, you know, and commenting on other artists’ work, so that when they notice your work, and they check your work out. That’s how you make connections and relationships. You know, I’ve had so many other artists like my work and then say, you know, I’m going to talk to my gallery. Let me see if they would show your work because I think your work is great. You know, that’s how I got most of my galleries. So building those relationships with other artists while you’re still building your body of work, so that way you have relationships, you have large amounts of art. And then you know, and then start approaching galleries and start looking at their websites and start checking out to see what artists they were represent. For a while I was in the same galleries with like the same five artists it it was like, Oh, you show this person’s artwork? Of course you do. Now you show mine because apparently we all go together in a group, you know. So it’s really funny. And then that’s another way that you can also check out other galleries. Oh, well, you know, this artist I like, you know, and my artwork, I think works good with that artist, what other galleries are they in and then you start approaching those galleries, you know, but you can’t do any of that unless you have a large body of work.

Laura

34:21
And how do you think you know if you’re a good fit or not for a specific gallery?

Jhina

34:26
I’m looking at their art. If you’re a figurative artist, and you’re approaching a gallery that does all abstract, obviously, you’re not going to be a fit, right? If you’re a figurative artist, and you’re looking at other galleries and they’re doing more Western type art, or I don’t know, like thematically it’s not the same, then you know, you’re not a good fit. So looking at galleries that show the same genre of work, the same quality of work, the same type of images without being exactly the same because then they won’t want you because they already have an artist like you, right?

Nikki

35:03
Yeah, you gotta find that sweet spot where you’re similar enough that it goes well together, but not so similar that it’s competing with something they already have.

Jhina

35:13
Exactly, exactly. And so yeah, just, you know, going through the artist lists of other galleries and seeing what they have. And, you know, once you start getting one, it’s easier to then see what kind of other artists you’re that you’re showing with to then find those other artists in other galleries. Because you know, then you’ll be a better fit, because you have already shown with these artists, if that makes sense.

Nikki

35:36
I think there’s also probably, it’d be kind of a fun exercise to look at the gallery and try to pick out what it is that their aesthetic has in common, you know, like, try to figure out, okay, I can see what this gallerist is going for. And see if you fit in with that.

Jhina

35:55
Yeah. And then, you know, it’s a lot of trial and error, you just, you give it a try. And if it works, awesome. And if not, you can’t take it personally, and then you just move on, you know, there’s a lot of galleries, and there’s a lot of places that you can show your art and it’s not a competition, and it’s not, you know, something that you have to be jealous of another artist because they’re getting all these shows, and you’re not. And there’s plenty of places for everyone to show their art and understanding that and knowing that okay, well, if this place didn’t show, this isn’t responding to my art, find someplace else, there’s always someplace else.

Laura

36:35
Are there any red flags that people should look for? You know, cuz you’ve had a lot of experience with so many different people, please don’t name names. But is there any advice that you could provide the site, you know, if you see this, that’s probably something that you should avoid?

Jhina

36:50
Well, I’ve had a couple of galleries who have bounced checks, who have sold artwork for way less than what you want to sell it for. My best advice is, when you get approached by a gallery, or you’re approaching the gallery, always talk to an artist who’s already represented by them. Because they will let you know what the relationship is like.

Nikki

37:16
Yeah, that’s really good advice.

Jhina

37:18
Because yeah, there was one gallery, and once we figured out that this woman was basically ripping us all off, you know, then anytime that we would see somebody else say, Oh, I’m now represented by this gallery, you know, it’s like, Okay, time to email that person say, hey, just so you know, yeah, this is what’s happened, you know, or they should be reaching out to you. And, and, you know, I do get other artists reaching out to me and saying, Hey, I saw that you were represented by so and so, you know, what, how was that like? And, you know, can you give me any information about them. So, you know, always doing your research, anytime that you are approached by gallery, or you’re approaching a gallery and making sure that they’re not going to do things like bounce checks, or, you know, sell your work for half the amount that you’re supposed to be selling your work for? And, you know, things like that. So, you know, and it does happen, there are definitely places where you don’t have honest people and work is not cared for. And they don’t treat their artists very well.

Nikki

38:24
Right. So how does that work with the pricing, though? I mean, do you have an agreement about what the prices are when you deliver work to them? And I mean, are they contractually obligated to sell at a certain price? Or?

Jhina

38:40
Yeah, so basically, at this point, in my life, and in my career, I have my prices set. And so whenever a gallery wants to talk to you about showing your work, they will always ask, okay, can you give me your price list, because, you know, sometimes you are way too expensive for their clientele, and they’ll let you know, and then it doesn’t work, or sometimes you’re too cheap. You know, in which case, they’ll be like, Okay, this doesn’t work. But if you know, you’re right around the same prices as their other artists, then that’s when you know, it works out. And generally, you agree to not more than 20% discounts and that’s usually to like designers, you know, who recommend your work or to whenever they sell multiple pieces of your work, or a client buys like a bunch of pieces from the gallery and they’ll offer a discount. So, you know, 10% 15% 20% usually is the max that you agree to giving a discount for. And if you’re really lucky, you’ll get a gallery that takes that out of their percentage, and I have one gallery that does that.

Nikki

39:56
Yeah, that’s good,I was gonna ask that next.

Jhina

39:59
But for the most part, you split that. So they take 20% of the top and then you get 50% of that amount. Yeah.

Nikki

40:07
So you’re in four different galleries right now.

Jhina

40:10
Um, yeah, I you know, it’s so funny because like I don’t even remember at this point, but I have my two, that my all is my two, now, because ArtHous has split to ArtHous and James Bocchi Contemporary, I now have three. And then I have Canfin, which is in Westchester. So that’s four and then I have an art consultant in Texas. So that’s five, so yes.

Nikki

40:44
Okay, so I have a couple questions about that. First, how does it work with multiple galleries in the same geographical area? Because I thought a lot of times, galleries want sort of exclusive within a certain mile radius. So how does that work with more than one in San Francisco?

Jhina

41:05
Um, well, that is an anomaly because you’re right, usually galleries want some want just exclusivity for the whole state, some want for the region or the city. I know that Simon Breitbard wants exclusivity for all of Northern California. But when I started with them, and with ArtHous, Simon Breitbart was in Mill Valley. They, because they were basically working out of their home and their home gallery, they weren’t asking for exclusivity. And so once they grew to a two gallery, you know, organization, they were asking their artists to be exclusive. And I hope nobody’s listening to this. But no, I hope everybody listening to…

Nikki

41:57
Well we hope everybody except for maybe one gallery.

Jhina

42:00
Right, so during the time that they were asking for exclusivity, I was going through cancer treatments, I got diagnosed with breast cancer. And so they were like, Okay, we don’t want to stress you out, we’re not going to ask for exclusivity, we’re just going to keep things the way that they are, and ArtHous was fine with, you know, me having another gallery, and which I am so happy because I don’t know who I would have picked, like, I would have had to pick between two of the most, nicest galleries that have taken such good care of me and have sold so much of my work, I would have not known who to pick. So um, so yeah, so they didn’t ask me to, you know, to pick. And now that ArtHous is now a virtual gallery, it’s not really an issue, because they’re not a brick and mortar gallery. So but yeah, you are correct, where galleries will ask you to choose or, you know, they’ll they’ll see that, oh, you’re represented by this person, so we can’t represent you because we want exclusivity.

Laura

43:07
And are there ever any concerns about a specific body of work and exclusivity? They’re like saying, we want this entire collection, you can’t sell this type of work to another gallery, even if it’s across the country.

Jhina

43:18
That hasn’t happened so far.

Nikki

43:20
Yeah, let’s hope it doesn’t.

Jhina

43:24
But you know, there is there are galleries that want right of first refusal, or they want to be able to see whatever new work that comes out first. That does happen for me, you know, I post my work on Instagram or on Facebook. And usually, one of my galleries will say, Can I have that? And whoever says that first gets it, you know, but for the most part, it’s if I’m working on a show for a gallery, everything goes to them, they get to decide whether or not they want those works. And then whatever is leftover, and then, you know, I’ll offer that up to my other galleries. At this point, I just post things and if a gallery wants it, they’ll let me know.

Nikki

44:10
That’s lovely.

Jhina

44:11
Yeah. Because nobody, nobody is, you know, really doing shows at this point. So yeah, so that’s how it’s been working.

Laura

44:19
And for somebody who’s just getting started, let’s say that they get approached by someone or they approach someone and it’s a good fit. Do you immediately sign a contract? How does the agreement work?

Jhina

44:29
Some galleries have contracts, some galleries don’t, I have to say that I definitely have a couple of galleries that don’t have contracts and you have to really trust them. And they have to trust you. I would say always try to get a contract. So that way, it’s spelled out on there. You know, what your work is going to be selling for what is the largest discount they’ll give you? Who takes care of shipping? You know, what happens? If so, gets damaged.

Laura

45:01
I was curious about shipping, and especially if you’re shipping your work to a gallery that isn’t in your state, right? Yeah, that’s representing you. And then they’re having to ship it to the customer if they don’t live in the place where they’re purchasing the artwork.

Jhina

45:12
Yeah. So generally, the way that it works is you ship to them, they ship to customers, or back to you if the work doesn’t sell. Yeah. I know that Simon Breitbard pays for all shipping, even shipping work to them. I live in the area, so I don’t really need to worry about that with them. But that is an anomaly also, because most places you ship to them, and you pay for that, and then they ship back if something doesn’t sell. So it’s not cheap to start off with a gallery because you’re having to ship a ton of paintings. And if it’s across the country, you know, that’s easily like $800 to $1,000, depending on how you’re shipping it. So yeah, it’s it’s not cheap.

Laura

46:00
Do you ship everything stretched already? Or do you ever unstretched things?

Jhina

46:04
Well, I have to do mine on panels on wood panels because of the encaustic wax. So not everything is already assembled. And they’re huge boxes or crates. It’s not cheap at all.

Laura

46:18
And heavy.

Jhina

46:19
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s heavy. And with encaustic wax, not everything gets there, unharmed.

Laura

46:26
Yeah, so I used to work in encaustic as well. So I understand that, especially, you know, you have to deal with anything that’s too cold or anything that’s too hot.

Jhina

46:34
Yeah, yeah. And right now, I’m actually having to deal with, you know, a gallery shipped a 48 by 48 painting, or maybe it was 36 by 48, painting to Hawaii. And it was crated and there’s these three tiny little chips on the edges. And we’re like trying to figure out how do we get that repaired, because if they ship it back, and then I repair it, and they ship it back to the client… One, there’s no guarantee it’s not going to be, you know, chipped again. But also by that point, they’ve already lost money on whatever they made from selling the painting. So you know, right now, we’re trying to figure out how to get that repaired. And I’m hoping that maybe there’s somebody in Hawaii who is an ecaustic artist that could help out? If not, yeah, it’s, it’s hard to figure this stuff out. But for the most part, if that ever does happen, if a painting does get damaged, you know, you’re responsible for fixing it, and making sure that the client then gets the painting, you know, fixed and sometimes you do lose money on that, you know.

Laura

47:45
Because you mentioned that it’s normally 50/50, right? The split?

Jhina

47:49
Yeah

Nikki

47:50
So tell us a little bit more about contracts? And do they specify a time period, like, you know, if you’re just getting started with someone, do they do like, well, we’re gonna take you on as a trial basis for six months and then reassess, or you’re exclusive with us for three years? Or how does that work?

Jhina

48:11
It’s generally six months, sometimes a year, depending on the gallery, where they will take your work. It’s on consignment. And if nothing sells, or not enough painting sell to show that they have a market for you, then they will send it back after six months or a year, depending on the gallery. But yeah, usually you’re on there with it for a trial period.

Nikki

48:36
Yeah. And have you ever had a case, or do you know of cases where, if you have a contract for a year, but you don’t like the way they’re doing something, so you want to get out of the contract or nothing has sold in six months, so they want to break the contract… Have you dealt with that kind of thing?

Jhina

48:54
Oh, yeah, and often because, you know, it’s all trial and error. You send your work out, and you hope for the best. And some galleries are very understanding, like when I started with ArtHous, nothing sold for the first six months, like actually, for the first eight months, and I was like, okay, they’re gonna drop me because nothing is selling. For them, they were like, you know, what, it takes a while for people to see your work, to have that, you know, have them think about your work, and then have them come back for your work. And sometimes it takes at least six months. So they were very understanding and knowing that you know what, we’re not going to automatically drop you because nothing has sold for six months. It takes that long for people to see your work on a regular basis to then understand it and want to buy it. And so after like eight months, then my work started selling and then they started selling a lot. You know, and some galleries understand that and other galleries, you know, they’re like, Okay, six months has happened, nobody has about your work. Sorry, it didn’t work out. You know, and then you say, Okay, thanks. And you know, you don’t argue and you get your work back, and then you try again someplace else, you know, but I think ArtHous has it right, where it does take time for people to really, you know, get to know your work, and especially if it’s something that is not just decorative, you know, where it’s something that you really have to think about. And for me, when I had those paintings with the bars over the eyes, it really took a while for people to understand what those paintings were about, you know, and sometimes it took six, eight months for the people to understand that and some galleries were like, Okay, six months happened and nothing sold, we’re done.

Laura

50:52
This kind of leads us into the marketing discussion. So what exactly does a gallery do for you? In that example, you gave us, maybe somebody walks into the gallery, and they’re thinking about it, and they come back later. But what proactive things does a gallerist do for you to help market your work?

Jhina

51:11
Well, they, obviously one show of your work in the gallery, but a lot of galleries will send out email saying, Okay, we are now representing this artist, or we have new work from this artist, or you know, some sort of introduction, they have client lists that they, you know, will contact and say, Hey, we’ve got this new artists who we think that you’ll really like, and, you know, start emailing them about your work and sending them images of your work. So they’re constantly contacting clients, or at least the good galleries are constantly contacting clients that they think would like your work. Anytime you have any new piece out, hey, you know, Jhina Alvarado has a new piece out, and this is it. Let me show it to you and, you know, get let you see it first, and decide whether or not you want to buy this, you know, so they’re constantly doing things like that. Having, obviously having solo shows and putting out the postcards, although most galleries don’t put out postcards anymore. It’s now like, green, you know?

Nikki

52:11
Yeah, I was just thinking when I first started when I got out of art school and first started approaching galleries, like, in the 90s, yeah, there was no internet, there weren’t websites, you know, so it was sending out postcards. And sometimes a gallery would do that. Sometimes they wouldn’t.

Jhina

52:31
Yeah. And I love those postcards.

Nikki

52:33
I know, I know, I still have so many stacks of… I think I have some of yours, actually. But and then they used to run, galleries would run ads in magazines. I don’t know if they’re still doing that, or if it’s just all online now.

Jhina

52:50
Yeah, I don’t know, if a lot of galleries are still doing that. I know Canfin would run ads in different magazines. And then they actually put out this beautiful brochure every time. And then they mail those brochures to their clients. It’s actually one of the few galleries that still does any sort of paper kind of advertisement for you. But for the most part, you know, galleries, it’s all email are all you know, posting your work on Instagram or taking your work to art fairs. art fairs are a huge place for clients to get to know your work. So doing things like that is really what most galleries are doing at this point, I think.

Laura

53:36
So you mentioned the social media that they would post on their social media. But that brings up a good question. Because I know in a lot of different areas of art as well as in publishing world and other places, it’s expected that an artist would have a specific number of followers before they’re even looked at sometimes. So from a gallery perspective, did they expect you to have a certain amount of social media followers?

Jhina

54:02
Um, no, mostly because most of the galleries that I’ve gotten, it was pre Instagram.

Nikki

54:10
So you’ve been with them for a while?

Jhina

54:12
Yeah, I haven’t had very many galleries say that you have to have… I haven’t had any galleries actually say that I had to have a certain number of followers on Instagram, and I don’t even know, you know, Instagram is one of those places where I’m a little confused, I just don’t understand how your work is seen and liked. And you know, like, I have just under 1000 followers, which in Instagram world is nothing, you know, but like, I don’t have like 1000 You know, likes on my images and stuff. And so I don’t know how that algorithm works of, you know, who’s seen your work and how often they’re seeing your work and I see other artists who have thousands of likes and you know, thousands of followers, and there’s always, I constantly get emails or direct messages or comments on my paintings of, we can get you lots of followers, you should pay us money to, you know, and I did that once. I did that once, and I’m like, okay, yeah, this doesn’t actually work.

Nikki

55:29
Because they’ll get you followers, but the half the followers are also fake.

Jhina

55:35
Yeah. And then they aren’t followers who are liking your work, and they’re not gonna like work, then they’re basically not followers.

Nikki

55:44
Yeah, there’s no point.

Jhina

55:45
Yeah. So I don’t, I haven’t quite figured out how to navigate the whole social media stuff, you know, and how to get followers and how to get likes. And I assume that those lead to sales?

Nikki

56:02
Sometimes.

Laura

56:03
I think they do for some, but also, it’s good to know that your work stands on its own and speaks for itself. You have successful gallery representation, and you’re not concerned about what numbers people have to have, and their followings. Right?

Jhina

56:22
Yeah.

Laura

56:22
And so that’s very encouraging.

Jhina

56:24
Yeah, fortunately, for me, you know, my following doesn’t seem to affect my sales. So, yeah.

Laura

56:34
Let me ask you this. So you’re selling originals in the galleries? Do you have the ability if you wanted to, to sell prints of those pieces at all, like online, in your own shop or anything like that?

Jhina

56:46
Generally, they the galleries don’t like that unless they make an agreement with you to sell the prints at their gallery, because basically, you’re making the piece less valuable by selling prints of that piece. So when I do prints, I do them have pieces that I am not selling in a gallery. Got it. So that way, it’s not competing with that. And even some galleries don’t even like you selling prints. Because why would you then buy a painting when you can get a cheaper print? You know, so for me, I’ve only recently started doing prints, mostly because I was doing these fundraisers for charities. And so I do prints of paintings that are not in style with what I sell in galleries.

Nikki

57:41
That makes sense. And I happen to have a beautiful print of yours. Oh, which one? It’s the woman holding the camera.

Jhina

57:52
Oh, yeah. Yeah. One of my very first paintings from my wallflower series?

Nikki

58:01
Yes, it’s beautiful.

Jhina

58:02
Thank you. Yeah. So at this point, I only do prints of paintings that are not in galleries, or if it is in a gallery, then I change it so that it’s not competing with it. So I’ll make it smaller or somehow different so that it’s not competing. And you know, some galleries are fine with prints.

Laura

58:27
Do most galleries want larger work? I assume they’re not looking for smaller pieces.

Jhina

58:31
Yes. The larger the better.

Nikki

58:35
What’s the average size of the work you do? I know it varies, but

Jhina

58:40
48 by 48 seems to be the size that sells best 36 by 36, 48 by 48. I have gone larger than that, but it’s really hard with encaustic wax, and I do completely smooth surfaces, you know, which are really hard to start with. Doing that on a very large painting, it wears on your body, like it takes me a while to recover physically from it. But it is really hard to do and they get super heavy, you know, and then there’s the whole thing of okay, well how do I get that to a gallery you know, and fortunately, the larger pieces tend to stay in San Francisco or in the Bay Area. But you know, having to ship a really large piece is really expensive and it’s scary because you know, they could arrive damage and then you just spent all this money, you know, shipping a damaged painting that needs to come back. So but yeah, galleries tend to like large pieces. Yeah, they sell for more. They look great on large walls, especially if they’re going to do some sort of corporate sale. There’s large walls and a lot of times paintings that feel large to me like a 48 by 48 painting, you hang it in the gallery and that looks like a postage stamp.

Laura

59:47
That make sense.

Nikki

1:00:10
Which is an interesting thing to think about, because I mean, okay, so once I’m on the bus, I’m not going to have any walls. But currently where I live, I don’t have a wall big enough for a painting that big. So what might look tiny in a gallery will overpower a house.

Laura

1:00:29
But it depends on who your market is. Because? Well, yes, the market in San Francisco probably have larger walls.

Jhina

1:00:35
Yeah, well, for the clients that can afford, you know, large works, yes, they definitely have large walls. And then there’s, you know, a lot of people who live in San Francisco homes, you know, where there isn’t a lot, a lot of wall space. And so you know, you want to be able to provide them smaller works. So that way, those clients can also access your work and buy pieces, but for the most part, large pieces sell best.

Laura

1:01:02
And do you find that you have a lot of collectors that come back again and again for your work?

Jhina

1:01:06
Yes, yes. And which is nice. And, and for me, that’s a little confusing, because like, how many pieces of the same type of work can you have in your house?

Nikki

1:01:17
It depends how big your house is.

Jhina

1:01:19
True, true. But like, you know, that I’ve always wondered that. And granted, I do have a couple pieces from like, you know, some of the same artists in my house. But, you know, at what point do you saturate that market? And yeah, this is always like something that’s going on in my head, as I’m thinking about, you know, all my work that sells in San Francisco. And I’m like, at what point do you saturate the market and then there’s no market for you anymore, you know? But these are the things that I worry about at like two in the morning, and

Nikki

1:01:49
But it doesn’t seem to have been a problem so far.

Jhina

1:01:51
So far it has not been a problem.

Nikki

1:01:53
And then new people are gonna find you all the time.

Jhina

1:01:56
Yeah, hopefully.

Laura

1:01:58
So one of the things we like to ask is, are there any questions that we didn’t ask that we should have?

Jhina

1:02:05
I’m trying to think. No, I guess…

Nikki

1:02:09
We love to stump people with that question

Jhina

1:02:13
I feel like I’ve talked a lot.

Nikki

1:02:17
Where do you see yourself in five years?

Jhina

1:02:22
Well, hopefully in five years, I have retired from teaching, and I am painting full time at home, and I’m able to make a living off of just selling my art. I mean, that’s the dream, right?

Nikki

1:02:34
Absolutely. That’s would be lovely.

Jhina

1:02:36
That’s everybody’s dream. Yeah, but yeah, you know, I have two kids and a mortgage. And you know, like being able to successfully support my family doing art, you know, would be amazing. And there’s some months where I’m like, Hey, I could definitely do that. And then other ones where I sell absolutely nothing. I’m like, Okay, we would starve this month, we would starve.

Nikki

1:03:02
Do you find though that it kind of I mean, my business is the exact same way, you know, doing web design and other design for clients, you know, I might have a month where I’m like, wow, I’ve met my goals for the first six months of the year. And then nothing else comes in for the next four months. So, but do you find that it kind of averages over the course of the year?

Jhina

1:03:28
Yeah, yeah, it does. There’s definitely…

Nikki

1:03:31
Hopefully with a steady slow incline over the years.

Jhina

1:03:35
Yeah. There’s definitely been good years and bad years. And surprisingly, the pandemic has been some of my best years of selling art.

Laura

1:03:47
Oh, really?

Nikki

1:03:48
I think that’s because everybody is stuck at home looking at their boring walls and they’re like, Man, I need to up my art game.

Jhina

1:03:55
Yeah. Like my two San Francisco galleries have had their best years these past two years for that exact reason.

Nikki

1:04:01
Yeah, people have time to figure out what they want to do with their house.

Jhina

1:04:06
Yeah, yeah. And myself, I’ve like rearranged art I read in my bathroom and like, Okay, I need all new art in there, you know, so I get why are definitely selling more this year. But yeah, there’s definitely hard years where you’re like, why am I doing this? Like, nobody likes my art. Nobody’s buying my art, you know? And I think for an artist, there’s always that self doubt. And that’s, there’s a feeling of, I’m not a real artist, or, you know, there’s no way I can survive off of doing my art. Why doesn’t anybody like my art? Does everybody hate my art? Does everybody hate me? Like, why am I doing this? Should I just quit? Like, these questions are constantly going in our heads, right? And, you know, it’s, unfortunately…

Nikki

1:04:53
So what do you do to get yourself out of that thinking, do you have…

Jhina

1:04:56
You know, sometimes I need to just take a break. And I know enough at this point that those feelings will go away. And that something will sell, and I’ll feel good about myself and you know that these are just some, you know, it’s, it’s self doubt that is always going to happen. And you it’s kind of like for me with depression, you know, I am clinically depressed. So there are times where I’m super, super depressed. And I’m old enough at this point to know, okay, you know what, I’m going to feel like shit for a couple of days, and then it’s going to go away, and I’m gonna feel like normal again, you know, I just need to ride this out. And so same thing with the self doubt with painting, you know, I need to just ride this out, and then it’ll be fine again, and then you know, and understanding that that’s going to happen, and that you’ll get through it, and it’ll pass, and it always does pass. And then you start working again, you know, so it’s just making sure that you understand that whatever is happening isn’t ever permanent. You know, things change so often, that you just have to ride out whatever is happening at that time.

Nikki

1:06:15
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Laura

1:06:17
Well, Jhina, where can our listeners find you online?

Jhina

1:06:20
Well, I do have a website. It’s just jhinaalvarado.com. I do have Instagram, which is just jhina_alvarado. I’m on Facebook, also, and I do post my art there. But most of it is, most of my postings are about my kids. So if you want to see pictures of my kids, and…

Nikki

1:06:44
They’re adorable, so you really do.

Jhina

1:06:47
They’re hilarious! Like the comments that they come up with, and you know, the things that they do are just hilarious. So if you know, I welcome followers on Facebook, but understand that that’s a lot of stuff about my kids.

Nikki

1:07:00
Yeah, but I’ve enjoyed seeing them grow up since I mean, I remember right when you got them.

Jhina

1:07:09
And like even before that, where I was like, Okay, we might get babies like, because my kids, if those who don’t know, my kids are adopted, and we waited, you know, a good year and a half of like, are we gonna get kids? Are we gonna? What’s gonna happen? And then, like, with less than 24 hours notice, here’s two newborns, you know, so? So yeah, it’s been an interesting journey with the kids, and you know, Facebook has everything on there about that. And Instagram, is all about just art. It’s just art. And it’s, you know, a lot of process shots, and I need to post more, I need to be more consistent with posting on there.

Laura

1:07:47
We all do.

Nikki

1:07:48
We all do. For sure, yeah. But it’s been really fun to follow you. What’s what’s one piece of advice that you can give to artists who are just getting started

Jhina

1:07:59
Paint a lot, every single day, even if you don’t want to paint, even if you have nothing to paint, you need to, you need to make a practice of painting every single day, it’s your job, if you want to make a career out of this, this is your job, you go in there and you paint even when you don’t want to, even if it means just gessoing panels, you know, or painting something and then painting over it later because you didn’t like it, you need to get in the habit of painting all the time. You know, even if it’s just two hours a day, like I hear a lot of people say, Well, you know, I have kids, and I don’t know, how do I carve out time to paint, like, you know, when the kids are taking a nap – paint, even if it’s just an hour, you know, you need to paint every single day. And if the kids are asleep, you know, and you need to paint after they’re in bed, then do it. But if you’re not doing it every single day, you’re never going to make this a career. You know, you need to get that body of work out. And if you’re not painting, how is that going to happen?

Laura

1:09:04
Well, especially if you want to be in five galleries, right?

Jhina

1:09:07
You need a lot of work.

Laura

1:09:08
50 paintings?

Jhina

1:09:09
But also, I think the thing that took me forever to understand is that not every piece that you paint is going to be a masterpiece. Like to for me, I would get so upset when I would paint something and it wouldn’t sell or people weren’t reacting to it or you know, and you need to understand that like, you may do 10 paintings, and two of them might be great. The rest might be crap, or maybe four of them are mediocre, you know? And to be okay with that. That’s why you paint all the time, because the more you paint, the more chances you have of coming up with that masterpiece, you know, or that piece that’s going to sell or that piece that that everybody’s gonna react to, but you’re gonna have to paint a lot of crap before you get there. You know? And even after that masterpiece, you may end up painting more crap before you come up with your next one. And that’s gonna happen. And, you know, if you’re lucky, you’ll get a couple of masterpieces in a row. But you know, you’re never gonna get there if you don’t paint. And you have to do that every day.

Laura

1:10:09
Well, Jhina, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. We’ve really enjoyed our conversation and I know our listeners are going to get so much value from your story and your advice on getting gallery representation.

Jhina

1:10:22
Well, thank you for having me. This has been fun.

Nikki

1:10:25
Yeah, seriously, thank you so much for being here. It’s great to see your face again.

Jhina

1:10:31
Nice seeing you too.

Laura

1:10:33
To learn more about Hina and read today’s Startist Society show notes go to startistsociety.com/jhinaalvarado, and that’s spelled JHINA ALVARADO. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, we’d love for you to share it with a friend. Sharing helps us reach more Startist like you and keeps us inspired to create new episodes. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next week.