55 – Kickstarter Basics with Jenni Kowal

Nikki

0:00
We hope you’ve been enjoying our print on demand series and we really have a lot more to share with you about that. Print on demand is a great way to get your art on products without a lot of upfront costs. But we want to take a short break from this series and talk about another way to get your art and products made without investing a whole lot of your money up front.

Laura

0:21
As artists and designers, many of us are interested in finding ways to get our artwork on products in the world. Rather than waiting for the perfect collaboration with a company, you can actually create those opportunities yourself with crowdfunding. It can be very confusing where to even start with something like a Kickstarter campaign. So today we’re going to talk to someone who has done just that.

Nikki

0:46
Jenni Kowal created a Kickstarter to fund her Self Care Adventure Cards, which she was able to not only fully fund, but actually to get three times more than she was asking for. Wow, we’re really excited to learn more about that process, her Startist journey and the advice that she can give to others who are just getting started.

Laura

1:07
Hi, this is Laura Lee Griffin.

Nikki

1:09
And this is Nikki May with the Startist Society, inspiring you to stop getting in your own way and start building an art biz and life that you love.

Laura

1:18
We are artists who believe strongly in the power of community, accountability, following your intuition, taking small actionable steps and breaking down the barriers of fear and procrastination that keep you stuck.

Nikki

1:33
Follow along with us on our creative business journey as we encourage you on yours.

Laura

1:42
Jenni Kowal is a multi-passionate visual artist and personal development coach specializing and self care and creative exploration. She’s the founder of Anytime Creative, and offers a variety of life coaching services, mindfulness tools, and self-care support. Jenni’s mission is to help scattered and multi-passionate creatives who use self care to fuel their creative expression, get out of their own way and spend more time in flow. Jenni, welcome to the Startist Society.

Jenni

2:12
Thank you so much for having me here. I’m so happy.

Nikki

2:15
We are so excited that you’re here, because all of the things that you help creatives with, we need and we know our listeners need too.

Laura

2:25
Yes, for sure.

Nikki

2:26
We like to start all of our interviews by asking you to tell us your Startist story. I know that you started with photography and design and now you’re working on creative coaching, and self-care and creating products like your Self-Care Adventure Cards. So give us some background, which came first? How did one lead to the other? How did you get to where you are now?

Jenni

2:53
Okay, I can start with when I was born… no I’m kidding. But truly though, I’m the last of four kids, so there was always a lot going on in my house. And one of those things was creative activities. So my sister is a fine artist; she went to school for that. But now she does bakery, pastries, and cakes and stuff.

Nikki

3:16
Definitely an art to that.

Jenni

3:17
Yes, she can make anything. So in that shadow, I was trying to find my way. And I always loved drawing and painting but was never like that good. And then when I went to school, I was in for design. And I like that, but I wasn’t like passionate about it for like a career. And I decided to do photography, because it was more fun and we got to go outside. So with both of those kind of together, I felt like I had this kind of arsenal of like, you know, I could get any job or I could really create, you know, a magazine, for example. So with that, I just sort of unfolded and learned other processes, like cyanotype with photography, like printmaking, and I love collaging, so that’s one of my favorite things to do as well. And in the process of just realizing that I didn’t want to be one thing, like I’m not just a photographer, if I don’t have a camera does that mean I’m still a photographer, you know, anything like that. So, after college, I kind of just let it roll and realize that I could do pretty much anything I wanted to and creativity wasn’t about, like the actual physical, end piece it was about enjoying the journey, whether it was you know, hiking and taking photos or making a short video or just having like some art made that I post on Instagram. And I really, truly found myself, I would say like later 20s, to realize that it wasn’t about the medium itself. And that’s kind of where Anytime Creative was born out of.

Laura

3:44
Wow and to actually understand that by your late 20s is early to me, I don’t know Nikki, about you, but…

Nikki

5:02
Don’t get us started again about how old we are. But yeah, Jenni, I would say that figuring that out at that age is great. So, you went to school and you studied photography and design, or you studied photography?

Jenni

5:20
I studied design mostly in high school and then college, they let us kind of take two years to figure out what we wanted. And then I was like, I’m going to do photography and stuck with that.

Nikki

5:32
Okay, so when you got out of school, what was the first thing you did professionally?

Jenni

5:36
So I actually lived in Alaska in my first year out of college for a summer Alaska. Yes. Awesome. So right near Denali National Park, my aunt and uncle had a nice breakfast, and I was a rafting photographer. So they had a lot of people going down the rapids, and you’d catch them you know, write in mid action. Splash. How fun is that? Yeah. And that was, like my first official job out of college. And it was just for a summer but you know, Alaska in the summer?

Nikki

6:07
Oh, Alaska in the summer is amazing. Yes. Yes. Highly recommend couldn’t pay me enough to go there in the winter. But summer. Okay, so what was next for you?

Jenni

6:17
Um, so then I’m, I lived in Philly for a while I moved back. And then I got a job or actually didn’t get a job. I moved to Oregon because I had a friend there from Alaska. She had a room for me. And because Oregon, yes. So since it wasn’t as far as Alaska, but it still had mountains. And I moved there and just started applying for Craigslist jobs, and then got a job as an instructional designer, which meant more dealing with like curriculums to make online courses. Oh, interesting, which then just really turned into be a graphic designer and making the marketing pieces for these thought leaders to make courses.

Laura

6:58
That’s a really good experience. Actually, yeah, I learned a lot.

Nikki

7:01
It’s great. It’s great background to use for everything else that you’ve done since.

Jenni

7:05
Exactly, like now everyone has an ecourse. And I’m making my own, and it really has changed in the last eight years where it’s like, become so accessible to make a course. So it’s yeah, it probably really like opened me up the best because I realized like that there’s actually people making money just on ideas now.

Laura

7:27
Alright, so you were working with the online course creators, you were doing graphic design, what came next?

Jenni

7:34
Okay, so after moving away from Oregon, just because it was a little too far away from my family in New Jersey, I went to Europe for six weeks. That was really fun.

Nikki

7:44
Because that’s not farther away.

Jenni

7:47
My friend got married.

Laura

7:50
That’s a good excuse to stay for a little while and travel around.

Jenni

7:55
I will say that the idea for anytime creative was born in Oregon, and I kind of put it on a shelf, like I just had all this excitement about it, and then when I moved away, you know, your life just changes so much drastically. And I lived with my parents again. So it wasn’t until I moved out a couple years later that it was like, oh, yeah, this idea for a business was really…

Nikki

8:18
What was the initial idea that got you excited when you were still in Oregon.

Jenni

8:22
So it’s still the core of it today, which is really just helping creatives stay motivated and unstuck. And I had ideas for courses or workshops and stuff like that. And when I restarted it, it’d be just became like, my LLC for graphic design, doing freelance, and I was like, Oh, this still works. It’s still a creative agency. And I pretty much worked freelance right after I came home to Jersey got a job at another graphic design agency. And once I quit there, I took a two month road trip throughout the US. So there’s a trend here. I couldn’t keep quitting my jobs to travel. So I needed to have my own business.

Nikki

9:06
A job that could travel with you.

Jenni

9:08
Yes. So that road trip, I sold postcards from the road. Like I basically said, I’m going to these, I don’t know, eight or 10 states, you can choose where you want it.

Nikki

9:19
I got one.

Jenni

9:20
Oh, yeah. Nikki did get one. Do you remember which state?

Nikki

9:23
Oh man you’re telling on me now.

Jenni

9:25
That’s a long time ago. It’s okay.

Nikki

9:27
I don’t it was a few years.

Laura

9:29
So you created, you designed the postcards to sell for each of the places that you were going to?

Jenni

9:34
So they were just photographs of the place. So it was kind of a pre-sale, so in the Kickstarter vein, just on my website, and it was like, hey, buy a postcard. I’ll send you any picture that I feel like and it’ll be from the state that you choose or I will pick one for you. So it was very much random.

Nikki

9:54
I think I let you choose one for me, but I thought that was such a brilliant idea. A way to get I mean, it probably didn’t pay for your whole trip. But a way to supplement a little bit by by selling something in advance, which definitely is a great precursor to the Kickstarter.

Jenni

10:13
Exactly, yeah. And I think everyone loves getting mail. So it was a perfect idea. And since then, the self care part kind of kicked in. So the road trip was kind of difficult being alone on the road, or I would be visiting friends that I, you know, used to live with in Oregon, or they have all scattered across the west. And I’m an introvert. And it’s like, you’re either spending too much alone time or not enough alone time at all. And I’m sure you know, when you’re traveling, you’re seeing people that you haven’t seen. So it’s like the same questions over and over again. And I, I love it, but it really caused burnout.

Nikki

10:53
Yeah, so how long was this trip?

Jenni

10:55
It was two months. So when I got back after that was when I was like, Okay, I’m going to work for myself, I’m going to restart Anytime Creative. And after that, when the pandemic started, I had already been enrolled in a life coaching certification. But it wasn’t until like, I lost my main client in the pandemic, because they were a restaurant. And they were like, not in the best position. So that really started the self care adventure cards, which is the Kickstarter that I did last year.

Laura

11:30
Okay, so tell us how you even start. So I’ve seen Kickstarter campaigns before. But it’s like, just, you know, getting the idea. And then actually getting started and getting it all out there coming up with tiers. I mean, there’s like all these things that go into it. So tell us a little bit about your first experience.

Nikki

11:48
Well, also, before you do that, before you even got to the Kickstarter, tell us about the development of the idea for the product in the first place.

Jenni

11:57
Okay. So for the cards, I really just created them out of necessity for myself. So I love checklists, you know, it keeps me motivated. But with self care, it wasn’t like something I felt needed a checklist. I didn’t want to like sit there and check off that I meditated, or, you know, went for a walk. So I created little self care squares, I called them. And one, they were probably like, two inch by two inch. One side was a self care prompt, like, drink tea, like very simple. One thing. And then the other side was an affirmation. So you know, like, I’m nourishing myself or something kind of related to the prompt. So I liked this idea. But I felt like it couldn’t really, like you’d need a lot of cards to sell them to people, because not everyone has the same interests as me. So I think one day, like, I just had this idea, and I was locked up with my boyfriend in my parents house, because, you know, March 2020, we don’t have to say, like, what we’re all doing then. But somehow between the, you know, watching the news and trying to like, figure stuff out, I was like, Okay, let’s figure out how these cards could really look. And what transformed was that it was only going to be like 50 or 60 cards, but the cards had more prompts on them. And they were all kind of seemed like, you know, isolate could mean like meditate or close the door or really, you know, go for a walk in the woods, like something where the, the theme of the card was listed on the top. But you could take that as you want, or keep going further into the prompts itself.

Nikki

13:38
Very cool. Yeah. So tell us how you went from Okay, I have this idea I have. I have this deck of cards, which by the way, they’re beautifully designed. And I’m a design snob and I don’t think most things are beautifully designed.

Laura

13:57
And I’ve seen them, I’ve seen them online. I don’t have a physical version of them, but they are beautiful.

Nikki

14:02
Yeah, I do. I wonder which box they are packed in. Since I just moved, but they’re beautifully designed. But so how did you go from having this idea? And you had them designed to… Okay, now how am I going to get these things made?

Jenni

14:19
Okay. Yeah, so a lot of the question was production and how to get them made. And luckily, I was in a group of entrepreneurs called Unreal Collective. It’s since been changed to Smart Passive Income, but in there is like a Kickstarter kind of company. So they help you basically make your product and market it and produce it. Oh, nice. That is awesome. So this company’s called Product Refinery, and it’s all in the name like I had. I had an idea and they helped me refine it.

Nikki

14:54
That’s brilliant. Yeah, we will definitely have to link to that info in the show. Yes.

Jenni

14:58
So I can I wouldn’t be here without them because I knew I had this idea that was bigger than you know, I could get a card deck printed but I had more ideas, basically. So it’s not just a card deck, there’s a card cloth which Nikki has used as a dog bandana.

Nikki

15:16
I have, Rocket loves it.

Jenni

15:20
So a lot of people say what is what is this, but the card cloth. If you ever pull tarot cards, you have like a sacred space to pull your cards. Or if you want to bring just the cards along, you can wrap them up and you know, just it’s like a little bandana keeps them safe. And then there’s also a little woodblock that says, “I am enough” and you put the card in there, if you want to, you know, leave it there for the day or come back to it. And remember which card that you pull.

Laura

15:48
Oh, I love that.

Nikki

15:49
Yeah.

And then yeah, I’ve done I’ve used that on my desk sitting on my desk. So I’m reminded during during the day of, Hey, dummy, take care of yourself. But back to how you started getting it produced, when you started working with this company, did you have the design done? Or was it still in the idea phase?

Jenni

16:10
Yeah, it was pretty much in the idea phase. And we started, I want to say we started in June. And then we launched in August. So it was like a short term, kind of high velocity project. Working with them, we were really able to craft all the extra pieces in the box. And the use cases, like there’s a guide book with it to make sure that you know what you’re doing with the cards. And what was also born was that it had five areas of self care. So first, my cards didn’t have any rhyme or reason, it was just kind of like prompts. And just like a board game might have is like different little categories. So I, we together, we came up with the idea of having categories and then I created, the five areas of self care are revitalize, nourish, express, connect and reflect. So that will be labeled on the cards, they have little icons, and they’re all color coded.

Nikki

17:11
They’re all color coded. And it’s a beautiful color palette.

Jenni

17:16
So really, with that being said, like the cards, the creating of the cards was the easiest part. And I’m not an illustrator, but I went on Creative Market and I got a set of illustrations. So it’s royalty free, so I am allowed to do that. And right everything else I made, you know, just came from this branding system I created for the deck and the Kickstarter launched, like, end of August, but I started marketing it probably end of July to talk to tell people that it was coming.

Laura

17:51
So when you were starting to market it, did you have a sample in your hands? Or were you just kind of telling people what was coming?

Jenni

17:59
Yeah, so I did get a sample of the cards from this company called makeplayingcards.com, and they sent like a single order of the cards so I could play with them. And then I also sent out some friends to sample them and give me reviews about them.

Nikki

18:15
And is that who made the final cards, the final deck?

Jenni

18:18
No, so actually, it was another company in China, and they have a minimum order of 1000. So hence the Kickstarter.

Nikki

18:27
Ooh, that’s a scary number.

Jenni

18:28
Yeah, yes.

Laura

18:30
But I like that, I like what you’re saying, Jenni, is that you got the sample, you know, domestically, you got a sample, people could touch it, feel it kind of look at it, the designs does it work for them? And then you would potentially have the opportunity to tweak it before you went and ordered like 1000 of them.

Nikki

18:47
And did you?

Jenni

18:49
Did I order 1000?

Nikki

18:50
No, did you actually change the design after the first initial samples based on feedback,

Jenni

18:57
I definitely changed the first ones because they didn’t have the five areas. And then the second ones, I think I added more after that. So I kept ordering them. And then I got one sample from the final company. And they said, at first this was without all of the extra pieces that I was gonna throw in there. So it was a smaller box. And then I didn’t see the final sample until like after the Kickstarter was done.

Nikki

19:26
And did the company that you worked with what were they called? Refinery?

Jenni

19:30
Product Refinery.

Nikki

19:31
Product Refinery. Did they help you source the manufacturer?

Jenni

19:37
Yes, yes. Because it was more than one factory that did put it all together.

Laura

19:44
Is it also like a booklet that comes with the cards or some directions that come with the cards on how to use them?

Jenni

19:49
Yeah, there’s like a 8 to 10 page guidebook that kind of talks about the use cases for the deck and the five areas of self care. And there’s also five reflection bookmarks in there, too, which was a stretch goal on Kickstarter, which we can talk about later. So those, I didn’t want to make a journal, because that would have kind of caused more shipping problems for me at the time. So I was like, let me just do bookmarks. Anyone can put them wherever, and they’re easy and fun.

Nikki

20:19
But maybe a journal is an upcoming product.

Jenni

20:22
Yes. Now that I have more means to produce that I can definitely make a journal and figure out what I want to put in there, too.

Laura

20:32
Very cool. So we talked about like, the 1000 minimum order. And I think that’s one of the things for product based businesses that so many people are scared about, it’s like, I don’t want to end up with 1000 things in my garage if I can’t sell them. So I think that’s kind of the beauty of Kickstarter a little bit is that you can kind of get a taste for Do I have the demand? Are there enough people that you know, orders that would be placed to hit that threshold or that goal, right? And you don’t have to pay all the money up front, you can wait until you have the money to spend to then turn around and pay your supplier, you know, the person that’s going to create them for you. Right?

Nikki

21:11
Yeah, because we’ve been talking about print on demand lately. And so that’s another way to go, which is kind of what you did with your sample pieces, it was like a print on demand sort of thing. But you’re not going to make a whole lot of profit, if you do it that way, you’re not going to have you know, you’re not going to have as much of a business with that as if you were able to reach your, 1000 minimum. So Kickstarter was your way of doing that.

Jenni

21:39
Yes. So I thought about all those avenues. And I would say the more you order, the cheaper it gets. So if I ordered right 5000 it would cut the profit there the cut the cost itself in half, but I would still have to pay out of pocket. But with the Kickstarter, I was able to, like reach that goal, basically to cover production. And then that meant that everything you know, there were still other costs in marketing and you know, paying consultant company, but after I had them in my hands, you know, it’s all quote unquote, profit. And you know, the question about stock in your garage, it’s definitely a concern. Luckily, Product Refinery at first they, they have a hookup with a warehouse that shipping things and I was able to kind of park myself there for the beginning. And they would you know, get an order, it would all be hooked up through the back end and ship it for me. So there are companies that will ship your stuff for you. If you don’t have them.

Laura

22:40
Yeah, like drop shipping, right?

Jenni

22:41
Yeah, so you just have to have them in a single location. But it came down to it that I wanted to pursue more like wholesale routes, or, you know, just I had the room at my parents house. And I just bought brought a bunch of boxes to my house in Nashville. So luckily, I don’t have all of them, like cuz I sold half of them at least. But it’s been easier to manage now that I kind of got in the groove of, you know, printing out a shipping label.

Nikki

23:11
So let’s dig into the Kickstarter. Sure. How do you even start?

Jenni

23:17
Starts with an idea.

Nikki

23:20
Idea, check.

Jenni

23:21
So I will be honest, this wasn’t my first Kickstarter. So I had experience. I did two in college.

Nikki

23:28
Okay. Do you want to give us just a little brief background about what those were?

Jenni

23:33
Yeah, the first one was when I was studying abroad in Europe, I needed money. And I wanted to make a photo book. So I raised $5,000 my junior year of college to go travel abroad in Rome and anywhere else that it brought me and I was able to make a photo book and send out prints to whoever donated, actually visited one of the supporters, backers in Belgium. So he was like, hey, love what you’re doing, and if you ever in Belgium, that’s super cool, became friends with him and his family. And then in senior year, we actually just had a project which was to create a video for Kickstarter. And I think I was the only one to actually make it live. Everyone else didn’t complete the project, but I just raised money for my final senior thesis art show for photo frames basically. And through those experiences I kind of understood the power of it through getting your friends to donate and family. Yeah, but I had never truly done it in this fashion where you know, I don’t want just my family pity donating to this project ’cause I think some of us have that thought.

Nikki

24:49
Right?

Laura

24:50
Um, but what was nice about that is that you kind of got to flex your courage muscle a little bit because you mentioned before that you’re an introvert. And and I am as well and so sometimes putting yourself out there can and asking for something feels difficult. And so that was a great way to get started with those first two Kickstarter campaigns you did because it kind of helped break through the resistance and get started. And yeah.

Jenni

25:15
I was not an expert, but I at least understood like the little bits and pieces of like the Kickstarter page, and how a user might go through the process.

Nikki

25:26
Well, you’ve now done three successful Kickstarter campaigns. So I’m going to say that you’re kind of an expert.

Laura

25:37
Way more than an expert than the other two people on this…

Nikki

25:39
Yes, absolutely.

Laura

25:43
Okay, so when you get on Kickstarter, people have like, tiers, right, you can set up tiers of, so with one tier, you get a certain thing with another tier, you get another, you know, enhanced version of it. So how did you decide what to do for that?

Jenni

25:59
So I was advised not to get too crazy with the tiers as far as like, you know, some people throw in T-shirts, and stickers and extra things, I think that’s totally fine, especially if you’re making a movie, or it just kind of depends on the medium where you want to get people hyped. But for mine, it was kind of like, I just want to make a box that has cards in it and other fun stuff. So the tears became, like earlybird backers could get like the lowest price. And then you could get basically two, like a buddy pack. And then you get four for family pack. So the tiers just became like a discounted bundle, the more that you bought together.

Nikki

26:43
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then I think do you, you also have a wholesale tier in there?

Jenni

26:48
Yeah, there was one for like 10, which would be like, yeah, sale. Yeah. But normally wholesale can vary. Like right now I just sell four as wholesale. But it’s it when you’re starting the Kickstarter, it’s like you get to make the rules. But you can always add tiers. And then you can, like have limits on them. So if you only want like 50 people to buy the first like lowest earlybird, then that will sell out and then it’ll go into the next kind of level that’s available.

Laura

27:16
So let me ask you this. I’m just curious. And I know we’ll talk a little bit more about marketing later, I’m sure. But when you started this, did you have a fairly large following on social media? Or you wanted to put this out in the world? And when you’re just getting started? I think a lot of people go I can’t do this, because I don’t have enough followers.

Jenni

27:34
Yeah, I, I wouldn’t say a huge following. I can’t remember exactly. Maybe around like 7 to 800 people on Instagram. But I really utilized my networks. So it doesn’t matter that they were following me. It’s just that I was able to be excited about it and share it. And then people like Nikki saw it and backed it. And Wandering Aimfully is the community that we met in so a lot of people from there became backers, and shared it with their networks. So I would say it’s a lot of just trusting that other people will get excited about it, too.

Nikki

28:12
Yeah, and I definitely did. As soon as I saw it, I thought, I mean, I mean, I’m a sucker for good design, even if it’s not something that I would normally be drawn to. So I, I’m very good at neglecting self care. But I can’t neglect good design. So. So you drew me in with that more than anything, but

Laura

28:39
You might neglect self care, but it doesn’t mean you don’t want more of it in your life.

Nikki

28:43
That’s true. I absolutely do want more of it in my life. And so a beautifully designed deck of cards certainly helped. But I love that that you, you didn’t have a huge social media following, but you have other networks that you are a part of. So I know we’ve talked a little bit about Wandering Aimfully, in past episodes, I think, without going into a whole lot of it. It’s basically it’s basically a network of creative entrepreneurs. And you know, it’s surrounding Jason and Caroline Zook and all their products that they sell, but, but it’s just a really great community of people who are helping each other. And that’s also what Kickstarter is.

Jenni

29:23
Exactly. So I will say Kickstarter also has its own platform, so a lot of people did find me from Kickstarter, so it wasn’t just my own feed. Kickstarter will recommend you products and it’ll also have like this product is expiring so come check it out and maybe buy it so you kind of get Kickstarter on your side and I was able to connect with a lot of great card lovers on there as well.

Nikki

29:53
Yeah, so I’m definitely guilty of going on Kickstarter because say I saw you promote your cards and then they recommend other things that you might be interested in. So I may have several sets of cards from different people.

Jenni

30:09
That’s great.

Laura

30:11
Okay, I’m going to tell myself I have like an entire drawer full of cards, I love them. I just do.

Nikki

30:17
We’re card addicts.

Laura

30:19
We’re card addicts, and I want to create some myself as well. So this is a great conversation for me, Jenni, mine would be probably more with with paintings or illustrations on the on one side of them, but it’s something that I’ve I’ve always been interested in doing as well.

Jenni

30:32
Yeah, it’s, it’s super rewarding, because it’s tangible. And it’s like art you can bring around with you. And you don’t have to just keep it on your wall or anything. And you can use it to help guide your life.

Laura

30:44
So did you have an email list at this time?

Jenni

30:48
Yeah, I’ve always had, at least, like, I don’t know, 100 or so people on my email list through through the beginnings. But I did, you know, email my list, I had a Facebook group that I started to help kind of get people excited about self care. I did like a three day challenge, if you submitted your homework, every day that you go on a group coaching call with me. So I had a few people hop on there. And I gave away one of the decks of cards. So I did a giveaway or two. So really…

Laura

31:21
How did those work for you? Because I’ve heard mixed things about giveaways. But you did you did a giveaway of your cards? Was it on Instagram? Or how did you do the giveaway?

Jenni

31:30
So mine was actually to backers only. So what we called it was like the golden sample giveaway. When I first got the decks probably like last October, November, we did a giveaway during the campaign. So it was like, Hey, go share that the campaign’s ending, if you are a backer, and I kept track of everyone who tagged me. And then I picked two people from there randomly that won, and then they got first access to the deck. So they were also getting their own deck later. Like the actual fully produced one, but this was like a sample and they got to use it. And if they wanted to talk about it, and you know, pseudo guerilla market it, then that was great, too.

Laura

32:19
That what a great way to reward people that back to you by giving them that first access. I love that.

Jenni

32:25
Yeah. So the Instagram ones I didn’t do until I had the actual physical deck in my hands. And that was just more about getting anyone excited about it and sharing the post. And then picking a random winner that way too.

Nikki

32:41
Very cool. So let’s talk a little bit about the, more about the campaign itself. Like how long did it run? Do you choose how long it runs? Do they make recommendations to you?

Jenni

32:55
Yes. So generally, I think you can choose, like 30 to 60 days. And then you can choose however many like you could do five days, but that’s not recommended. Yeah, but about a month is recommended because you’re having to market that the whole time. And what I learned was like, try not to launch on a weekend, which is general launching, you know, one on one and not ending on like a weekend or Friday. Okay, so look at the timeframe and say, okay, like 28 days, Tuesday to Tuesday. And then…

Nikki

33:34
Is that what you did?

Jenni

33:35
I think I did like a Tuesday and then ended on a Wednesday. And then it wasn’t at like, mid…I don’t know what time I said it really. But I was trying to market it until the end. But you really, you go hard in the first couple of days the first week. And then there’s generally a lull because the excitement wears off. And then at the end, it’s kind of like, hey, last chance to get in and you’ll see like an uptick of sales then.

Laura

34:01
that always happens at the very end. Where I know if I think about me being a purchaser, I’m like one of those persons that always like buys at the very very end of something because I’m trying to decide because I overthink everything. And then at the very end I’m like I don’t want to miss out , fear of missing out and then I hit the buy button right there on bought like the last minute it’s available.

Nikki

34:25
I’ll spend that month trying to talk myself out of buying it because no you don’t really need this. But then at the end I’m like yeah, I’m gonna buy it.

Jenni

34:34
And Kickstarter, you get to be part of this like maiden project, you know, it’s really just like, you are helping support the production of it. It’s not just like buying it on the shelves. It’s not as exciting.

Nikki

34:45
Yeah, that’s one of the best things about Kickstarter and things like Patreon, too, where you’re not just buying a product that you like from some big store. You’re supporting somebody’s dream which is just amazing. So talk to us a bit more about how you marketed it leading up to the start of the campaign because you said you started before it launched. And then during the campaign.

Jenni

35:14
Yeah. so the pre launch is just as important as the launch itself. So you want to have people like ready to buy this as soon as the doors open? So I…

Nikki

35:25
We always forget that part.

Jenni

35:26
Yeah. I think as artists, as artists, we can be like, I just want to go now. And and then nobody… you get crickets. So it’s building excitement. I had kind of hinted at it for maybe a month or two before, but when it actually was like a month out, I was like, Hey, I’m making this thing. And here’s the behind the scenes, I had Instagram polls to help people pick some color palettes. And generally,

Nikki

35:52
Oh, that’s smart.

Laura

35:53
Oh, that is smart.

Nikki

35:55
Get people excited about helping you develop the product.

Jenni

35:59
Keeping people engaged. And I was like, creating new cards in the process. And I was like, Do you like this one? Or that one? Or should I add this does this need to be added? And I think when people are along the ride, like, if you can even tease it out, like I wouldn’t say like pretend, but like maybe just leave a couple things for, you know, dripping it out of the final piece, like, make people feel like they were involved. And like, it doesn’t have to be finished as soon as the Kickstarter is over. Because you can still kind of work on it as you go and ask for feedback.

Nikki

36:36
Right? Smart.

Jenni

36:38
Yeah. So the like, I don’t have like a full on pre launch plan. But it was just a lot of taking photos of the samples, working on the video, releasing little clips here and there. And then when it went live, I really, or at least the couple days before I was really talking about it, like I said about the Facebook group, got some people excited in a free challenge, which is a very common thing. And yeah, and then really the launch week, I just remember opening the doors and DMing all day, basically because people were excited. And I wanted to keep the momentum going.

Laura

37:21
But having the DMs is awesome. And that’s because you did that pre launch work.

Jenni

37:24
Yes. And I remember taking a bath on launch day cuz I was like, I just need to be be alone for a minute and decompress.

Nikki

37:33
Is that one of your self care cards? Take a bath?

Jenni

37:35
Definitely.

Laura

37:37
That’s the one that Nikki keeps in her holder on her desk all the time.

Nikki

37:40
That is the one that I keep, you know that the apartment that I’m living in right now has no bathtub.

Jenni

37:46
That’s very sad.

Nikki

37:48
I know.

Laura

37:48
Very sad for Nikki.

Nikki

37:49
But my school bus is going to have one.

Jenni

37:55
We have a beautiful garden bathtub here is the best part of this apartment. So that is my savior. And really what came down to it was like, There’s only so much you can do is like you do the pre launch, you do the day of launch. But you’re still you, you still have to take care of yourself, you know, you’re gonna want to check the Kickstarter to see it going up and, like, get really excited. But otherwise, like, just make sure you carve out time. And you’re not like having a million other things to do that day.

Nikki

38:27
Well, yeah, because I’m sure you also had other work responsibilities. And you can’t just sit there on Kickstarter, clicking refresh all day,

Jenni

38:37
I know, even if you want to, but I would say to try not to go on vacation, like the week before, or like you really just treat it like this, you know, two month container is is really important to your integrity of the launch. But make sure you take breaks and have like the launch emails prepared. So that really when it comes down to like, the open door is that you’re just kind of responding and pivoting, not like creating a whole sequence as you go.

Laura

39:08
So what was the funding that you were looking for, for this campaign? What was your your goal?

Jenni

39:13
Like 50,000? Now I’m kidding. That was like my Oh, my God goal, like that would be great. The goal for it to kind of launch and like really be real. I was like 4000 was my lowest goal.

Nikki

39:30
And was that like what it would cost to get your 1000 minimum?

Jenni

39:34
No, it was just it was just the cost that it would take for it to really happen. So I could still make it work, but I needed really I just wanted that to get funded quickly. And then it would build trust with the audience that be like, Oh, it’s actually happening. So that is kind of something could be a little misleading. But once you’re, once you have the funding fully funded, you gotta go with it. And I would say like, my internal goal was around like, 16,000 just to have everything covered. But I believe it was about 12,000. And that was perfect for me to cover the cost of the cards and everything.

Nikki

40:16
Well, that’s fantastic. I mean, if your goal was 4000, and you got 12,000 I mean, Laura, you do the math?

Laura

40:25
Yeah, that that’s three times what you wanted. I think that’s pretty stinking awesome.

Nikki

40:30
Yeah, that’s fantastic.

Laura

40:32
The original amount… do you have to publish that on Kickstarter? Do you have to put it up there saying this is what I’m going for this amount?

Jenni

40:39
Yeah, that’s the, that’s the like the meter kind of for like, it will say, Oh, you’re at 100%. And you’re at 200%. And it’ll keep going up. So if I had said it, like at 20k, and I only made 4k The first day, it would have been like, Oh, I’m only like, less than 25% there. So it doesn’t look as sexy on on Kickstarter.

Nikki

41:00
Well, also with Kickstarter, you only get the money if you get the amount if it’s fully funded, right. I know. There are other platforms that okay, I haven’t even looked at it in years, but it used to be Indiegogo was one that you could still get the money if you didn’t get the whole amount.

Jenni

41:20
Yeah.

Laura

41:20
Okay. Does it refund people on Kickstarter if you don’t, if you don’t hit that amount or something?

Jenni

41:25
Yeah. Never even charges their card until …

Nikki

41:28
It doesn’t take the money until you reach the amount. But if you go over, which you did, then yay. So there must be some strategy there in picking your amount, because you knew that to get it fully covered you needed more than what you asked for. But you found a number to set as your goal that okay, if I get this much, I can still make it happen.

Jenni

41:55
Yeah, that that is why I hired a consultant team, Product Refinery, to come up with what that is. So I’m not trying to give away all their secrets, but I think that is it like whether or not you’re trying to come off a certain way with your amount, like, it’s just knowing that you might want it to be really high, but just know that you build trust by having it be fulfilled. And then you continue to market it for the month. And then people in their brains are like, Oh, it’s gonna happen. And it’s just becomes like shopping at a discount because of the lower tiers. So it’s a different kind of psychology.

Nikki

42:32
Yeah, and I can definitely see how you would want somebody with experience to help you figure out, you know, what, what to even ask for?

Jenni

42:41
Yep, I needed that.

Laura

42:43
And then Is it still available now? Like, can you go to your Kickstarter and purchase? Or does it redirect people to your website to purchase? Or how does that work?

Jenni

42:51
So once the campaign is over, you can still see it, but I have like a little button at the top that will just say, Buy Now I think I have to change it. It says preorder. So I had put it on Indiegogo after the campaign was over to collect. They actually will take your Kickstarter goal and like convert it into Indiegogo. So on Indiegogo it already said I’ve made $12,000. And I kept it open as like a pre sale price until I got them on my own website. So that’s kind of another secret trick. And it wasn’t building a lot of you know, traction. It just was another place to purchase after the campaign, just at a different price because they went up. So now it just links to my website, and then I just sell them through, I’m using Shopify right now. But I’m probably going to switch to WooCommerce. That’ll be fun.

Laura

43:46
Yeah, we use WooCommerce, Nikki and I do. But when you’re you said you’re doing all the shipping yourself. Now you used to use a drop-shipper at one point and now you’re doing all the shipping yourself.

Jenni

43:57
Yeah, so I mean, I’m gonna say right now I’m not getting a ton of orders like a day. So it’s not hard. That would be a goal, but it’s really like an exciting thing to get an email and then I bought myself a little Canon printer that like folds up if I need it to. I would love to get one of those like, you know, small printers that prints labels for shipping.

Laura

44:17
The thermal printers. Yes. Oh my god, like a little Rollo.

Nikki

44:20
Those are awesome.

Laura

44:22
I totally want one of those little Rollos.

Jenni

44:23
Yeah, cuz you can make other stickers with that too. But I’m like, I can’t I need a real printer just for like adulting. And yeah, I just got like Amazon had sticky half sheets of paper that you just put run through. And I also got boxes created with the self care cards. So it actually is a branded box. And I just slap the label on there and I don’t have to think about finding boxes or anything. They just come in the box I ship it in and it’s perfect.

Nikki

44:52
Great. Very cool. So let’s switch gears just a little bit and talk about about self care. Because, you know, we asked you to come here and talk about the Kickstarter product because we thought that’s what our listeners might want to know more about. But we also all need to talk about self care. So yeah. So tell us about, like a little bit more about how you came to that. And what does that look like to you?

Jenni

45:23
So self care, as I touched on earlier about my road trip, like I, I was expecting to be like, highly creative and inspired the whole time. But I brought my camera and I was taking pictures, I had a whole bundle of books and notebooks that I just never touched. And I found myself just like watching Netflix in my tent a lot of the times and just feeling displaced.

Nikki

45:50
I had that exact same experience. When I went, I went to Mexico for three months. And I brought art supplies and sketchbooks and books and thought, Oh, my God, I’m gonna have all this time to create. I watched a lot of Netflix too. So why is that? Why do we do that.

Jenni

46:07
And I think sometimes we need that. So I think, I think it was Brene Brown was saying, like, her husband and kids went out of town for the weekend. She’s like, I’m gonna write, I’m gonna write, it’s gonna be great. And she watched like Law and Order the whole weekend.

Nikki

46:22
It’s not a bad choice.

Jenni

46:24
And when they came back, she was like, inspired to write again. And for me, it was that I was I quit my job, I broke up with my boyfriend at the time, and just like, got up and went and drove for two months. And it had been my goal for a while, but when it was actually happening, I was still processing the previous time. And self care was never like a proponent in my life. I never thought about it. But when I got back from the road trip, I moved in to my own apartment, and I was like, Okay, now, now I have to have like a routine and really feel good before I create. So the reason I wasn’t creating was because I was just meeting my basic human needs, as you know, surviving on the road, finding healthy food, staying sane, being introverted. So like, that notion, it wasn’t just like a buzzword anymore. It was like, okay, like this is, as a creative, my key to like actually creating more. And I think they’re both interchangeable. Self care is creative. And creativity is self care. But we can be, as artists can be so hard on ourselves about, you know, whether it looks good or feels good, or someone’s feedback. So it’s just become a journey and getting to know myself and realizing that a creative practice doesn’t have to mean anything to anyone else except myself. And as long as not, not even as long as it’s just more of a, if it feels good to write, that’s going to be my outlet today. And it’s, it’s just about being aware of it. And that’s where the shift came for me.

Laura

48:11
And, and everybody has a different version of self care. It doesn’t look the same for each person.

Jenni

48:16
Exactly.

Nikki

48:17
Mine is bourbon.

Laura

48:18
Yeah, Nikki’s is bourbon. But yeah, it could you know, for one person, it could be just spending 10 minutes out in nature, you know, another person it could be scribbling, you know, on a pad of paper, or it could be having an hour-long massage or bourbon while having a massage. I don’t know, would that work for you Nikki?

Nikki

48:39
Why haven’t I ever done that?

Jenni

48:43
I think that would be amazing.

Laura

48:45
Yeah, so self care is something we forget. And I know, some of our listeners may be in a situation like I am, I’m working in a full time job and sometimes that spills into the evenings.

Nikki

48:56
Sometimes.

Laura

48:57
A lot of times and then I’m trying to get this creative wellspring to turn around and then do my art business right. And so it’s a little bit of burning the candle at both ends and I love doing both things. But when you try to do all of them at once it gets really really really difficult. Like the self care thing. There isn’t any room for it, right? So I get stuck in that cycle.

Nikki

49:20
Well, that really does make sense when you think about how, how you go straight from that working, working, working and you’re like, oh my god, I’m gonna take this creative little vacation and do all this great stuff. And then you’re too exhausted to do it. So you do need to take care of yourself before you can do all those things that you planned. Yeah, like

Jenni

49:41
We have cycles, we are not going to be creative all the time.

Nikki

49:46
Dammit.

Jenni

49:47
Sorry, my company is called Anytime Creative, but

Nikki

49:52
But you really mean Sometimes Creative?

Jenni

49:56
It’s like a dual meaning, it’s deeper, its meaning that, like, if you want to be creative like you, here are some tools to help you get there. It’s like, I’m not teaching you how to draw or paint or any of those awesome things. But it’s like, I’m the companion to help you get to that place or use those modalities to move through something like, you know, doing some sort of inner work that way. So there have been times that I haven’t taken a photo for three months when I was like, truly a photographer. I was like, do I even call myself that anymore? And then I would pick it up, and it was all normal. But it was this pressure that I put on myself and the societal pressure to be creative. And to just understand that it’s like you are creative, no matter what you have it inside of you. It is intangibly there. And you said creative wellspring before

Laura

, and we all have one inside of us. And the self care piece is what we really helps fill it back up. So I think I’ve been in that position of working full time and wanting to have that creative energy but being zapped, and even now I’m trying to run my own business. It’s, it’s incredibly hard. But like, if you look at it, the reverse, it’s like, how do you make time for yourself first, and then the other stuff falls in? I think that’s the only swap that we can make. Otherwise, it will always come last, but we need to keep driving the you know, the train here for ourselves. So I think a lot of people can relate.

Laura

51:34
And it’s okay to watch Netflix for a weekend.

Jenni

51:36
Yes, yes.

Nikki

51:38
Is it okay to do it for three months?

Jenni

51:40
I don’t think there’s any rhyme or reason to this. I think it’s about acceptance and awareness, but not trying to really force ourselves out of something. And, you know, sometimes we have to feel our feelings, unfortunately. But it is more beautiful if we can.

Nikki

52:02
Yeah. So that’s fantastic. That’s really good advice. And so talk to us about the self care offerings that you have for people… like how do you how do you work with people?

Jenni

52:16
Wonderful. So I am a coach, or I like to call myself a creative guide. So with the self care cards has kind of sparked this whole way of thinking about self care and creativity. And I’ve created my first group program, which is called Uncover Your Creative Wellspring. Touching on that creative wellspring again, it’s like, we have this inside of us, but it might be covered up by I like to call it like the velcro of our lives. So we move through our life, and other people’s opinions or negative words, art teachers, that didn’t say kind things and those types of things have been stuck in there and they’re not allowing us to be our true self. So if we can peel back those layers, by using some creative practices, I like to call it like embodiment work, breath work, meditation, journaling, vision boarding, all these fun things, working on ourselves, and creating boundaries, so that we have that creative time and capacity. That is going to be I don’t know, the the best way for you to work with me right now, because it’s a, let’s say, like an eight to nine week program starting in January. But I’m going to be doing more of these, this is just the beginning. And what that entails is just, it’s going to be five group calls, as well as community support and I have some guest speakers coming in too. And it’s not like a group program in your normal sense, I just want it to be like a collaborative space for creatives or curious creatives to come in and there’s so much power in when someone can hold space for you. And like, Zoom fatigue is real. I know it’s been a long two years already. But if we can really just like take that time for ourselves and take it back so that we’re having, I guess, a creative process happening in the background. It’s not just sitting and listening, I think it’s going to be really hands on and I don’t know, really fun. So you’re all welcome to join.

Nikki

54:30
And we will link to the page with the information about that in our show notes for sure. So is there anything else that we should have asked you about? What question should we have asked you that we didn’t?

Jenni

54:43
Hmm, good question. Who my favorite artist is?

Nikki

54:47
Sure?

Laura

54:48
Yeah, who’s your favorite artist?

Nikki

54:50
It’s me. I know, I know.

Jenni

54:54
So like that’s a really hard question, I don’t know why you guys asked me that. But, um…

Nikki

55:02
We’d like to hit the hard-hitting questions.

Jenni

55:04
I think the most influential person has been Austin Kleon, who wrote Steal Like an Artist.

Laura

55:11
Love Austin Kleon.

Nikki

55:12
We’ve brought him up so many times, and he doesn’t know it yet, but he’s going to be on the podcast. So

Jenni

55:18
Yes he should.

Nikki

55:19
As soon as we work up the courage to ask him.

Laura

55:23
Next week.

Nikki

55:24
Uh huh. I’m not sure I have enough bourbon for that.

Jenni

55:29
He’s just a person who happens to create, as well.

Nikki

55:33
He is.

Jenni

55:35
I mean, you know, of him. But I just think when I found his book, Steal Like an Artist, and then I think I got Show Your Work at like, the same time. And I was like, I just needed to hear it. And I read it probably like once every six months, but that’s the kind of person I want to be is just like, these little bites, like, I want to share creative or self care bites and have people pick it up, put it down, it doesn’t matter if…I don’t, you don’t need to read a full book ever. It’s just, that is to me, like the creative process.

Laura

56:08
And what was your biggest takeaway from either of those books that you enjoy a lot from him?

Jenni

56:13
Um, that’s hard to say. I think the Steal Like an Artist mentality is like, especially since I like to collage. And you know, I’m taking photos of things that are already existing, it’s like giving me permission, that I am literally just using my lens, my eyes as part of this world. And I might take a picture of a mural, but that someone else’s work, but in my own lens, I’m able to interpret it and share that with the world. So I think art is supposed to be like the social currency. And it’s just really about expression. And it’s not, I don’t think we should have it like snooty or high end all the time. I think there’s a place for it. But the most of the world is never going to be in a gallery. So like, make the world your gallery.

Laura

57:07
I like that quote, make the world your gallery.

Nikki

57:09
That’s perfect. And by the way, do you get his weekly emails?

Jenni

57:13
Yes, they’re great.

Nikki

57:15
They’re brilliant, too. He just shares things that he’s come across that fascinate him.

Laura

57:19
I pick this as the third time I’ve heard about that. So I need to go sign up for his email.

Nikki

57:23
You really do. Get on there. I mean, there are very few… I sign up for a lot of emails and unsubscribe really quickly. There are very few that I absolutely read every week. And his is one of them.

Laura

57:35
His is one of them.

Nikki

57:36
Yeah. So

Jenni

57:37
I strive to be that good. Yes. I want to I want to create a database of like creative resources, too. So that’s coming up someday soon.

Nikki

57:45
Oh, excellent. Excellent.

Laura

57:47
So the next question we have for you is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to those that are just getting started.

Jenni

57:56
I do this all the time. And it’s over consuming. So if you can try to separate yourself from the imposter syndrome, from consuming everyone else’s content, and try to really just be the curator, like the Steal Like an Artist mentality, try to separate and distance yourself directly from people’s work. And if this is about creating work, like if you’re, you know, looking for inspiration, I think that’s okay. But if you’re trying to build a business, really, see if you can move out of that comparison trap, just to knowing that people, they might be two years along, they might be 10 years along, and you’re just starting. So it feels really hard. But knowing that, like if you just keep creating and learning and growing, you’ll get there. So I just think if we can spend more time creating than consuming, that’s the best advice I can give. And seek help from like, advisors that aren’t gonna kind of scare you like, maybe a little bit but like,

Laura

59:05
Push you outside of your comfort zone, but not throw you off the deep end.

Jenni

59:08
Exactly, like figure out what you’re comfortable with, but also know that like, it’s gonna take time to, you’ll get there.

Nikki

59:16
More great advice. So are there any resources that you can think of, aside from Austin Kleon. Any resources that have really helped you in your creative business?

Jenni

59:27
Okay, so one that comes to mind is Otter is a voice transcription tool. And it’s an app, it’s free for like 6000 minutes a month or something. So if you want to just open up your phone and voice record yourself, like with any thoughts and ideas, it will automatically transcribe it for you. So it’s just otter.ai and like, this is great for people that get ideas like on their walks or randomly in the car, because we know creative stuff comes from anywhere else besides you know, the computer, the drafting table. So that’s one that I use often. And trying to think…

Nikki

1:00:07
That’s actually a great one. We use that, I use that every week to do the transcriptions for the podcast, but I have yet to use it the way that you’ve suggested. So I think it’s great advice.

Jenni

1:00:21
Yeah. So that one has perfect range. And you can use it for business or pleasure.

Nikki

1:00:26
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Jenni

1:00:28
Otherwise, as far as like creative resources go, just go to a used bookstore and walk around and see what you can find. And just make it a game. Like, if you’re looking for inspiration, I think that’s like, I mean, hopefully, you have one in your town. But that’s where I find myself looking through the art section or the metaphysical section, or like, I don’t know, any type of random thing that’s even outside of your niche, and like, look into it, make it random and make it fun.

Laura

1:01:02
Here in Dallas, we actually have a store called Half Price Books. And it’s been here for, I don’t know, 20, 25 years or more. And it’s grown. And I think it’s even in other states now. But it is the coolest. It’s like a Sam size warehouse full of used books. Oh, wow. It is like the coolest place in the planet to go to and do that. I love it.

Nikki

1:01:22
But also, Laura, your house and my house are also used bookstores. We could each open one.

Laura

1:01:33
Pretty much.

Nikki

1:01:34
Even after I sold half of the books that I own, I could still open a used bookstore.

Jenni

1:01:39
Okay, so you don’t have to buy anything, maybe go to the library, take it out, take pictures of it and put it back.

Laura

1:01:46
I love the library.

Nikki

1:01:47
That would be smart. All right. So Jenni, where can our listeners find you online?

Jenni

1:01:55
So you can find me at anytimecreative.com, or @anytimecreative on Instagram is where I normally hang out. And I have a newsletter. It’s called Creative Quest newsletter. So I send out creative and self care inspiration every week. And yeah, you can pretty much find everything on my website.

Laura

1:02:15
Awesome. Well, we just want to thank you for your time today. This has been so fascinating to learn more about Kickstarter campaigns and how those work and to learn more about self care and all the things that Nikki and I should be doing.

Nikki

1:02:30
All the things we’re going to have to come back to you and ask you about. Seriously, thank you so much for being here. We really, really appreciate it.

Jenni

1:02:39
Thank you for having me, and I’m glad I could help provide some insight.

Nikki

1:02:45
To learn more about Jenni and read today’s Startist Society show notes go to startistsociety.com/jennikowal, and that’s spelled Jenni K O W A L

Laura

1:02:58
If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, we’d love for you to leave us a five star rating and review. Reviews help us reach more Startists like you and keep us inspired to continue creating new episodes. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next week.