104 – Beating Perfectionism with Elli Milan

Laura

0:06
Hi, this is Laura Lee Griffin.

Nikki

0:08
And this is Nikki May with the Startist Society, inspiring you to stop getting in your own way and start building an art biz and life that you love.

Laura

0:17
We are artists who believe strongly in the power of community, accountability, following your intuition, taking small actionable steps and breaking down the barriers of fear and procrastination that keep you stuck.

Nikki

0:30
Follow along with us on our creative business journey as we encourage you on yours.

Laura

0:39
Today’s guest, Elli Milan is an artist, author, educator and founding owner of Milan Art Institute, as well as Art Social an online art education program, social learning and art patronage platform. She has been a successful artist since 1996, selling over 10,000 pieces of original art. She’s passionate about empowering artists and has transformed the lives of thousands of artists worldwide, helping them find their voice and turning their passion for art into a profession.

Nikki

1:12
Aside from hearing all about Elli’s Startist story and her art institute, we’re excited to discuss perfectionism and how it holds us back as artists and entrepreneurs with Elli, who has clearly not let anything hold her back. Elli, welcome to the Startist Society. Were super excited to chat with you today.

Elli

1:29
Well, thank you. I’m excited to be here.

Laura

1:32
Well, you’ve accomplished so much; you’ve sold 10,000 paintings, you’ve created an Art Institute, and your own line of art supplies, you’ve written and published a book, you’ve generated an entire art focused social media platform app, you have an art residency program… I feel extremely lazy right now.

Elli

1:53
Well, I had a lot of help. So it’s not that I did all of that single-handedly. My husband is also an artist and all four of our kids are artists. And my oldest daughter is a co-owner of Milan art and all that we do. And her husband Jake is also a co-owner. And my daughter’s husband, Elijah, my third daughter, her husband, Elijah is also an owner. So there’s five of us that are working towards these things.

Nikki

2:25
Well, Elli, we like to start everybody off by telling their Startist story. We want to hear how you got started, and a bit about the journey of how you got to where you are today. And I want to sneak in… I did a little research about how you got started and discovered that we have a couple of things in common, because I went to University of Georgia for undergrad.

Elli

2:51
Oh, no way.

Nikki

2:53
Got an art degree there.

Elli

2:54
Oh, my gosh, you went to Lamar School of Dodd.

Nikki

2:57
I did. Lamar Dodd. Yeah, a good bit before you. I graduated in 89. And then I went to Savannah College of Art and Design for grad school.

Elli

3:08
Oh, my gosh, I did it in reverse. But yeah…

Nikki

3:11
So yeah, we have that in common. We can probably trade notes on a lot of the same professors. But but that’s not what we’re here to talk about. Right now we want to hear how you got started.

Elli

3:24
Okay, so I, I was not one of those kids that was artsy. And in in high school and middle school, I wasn’t a standout in any way. I had a few friends who were and I was kind of envious of them that they could draw. They were the ones that could draw any cartoon of anything. And everybody would admire it and go oh, that’s so cool. Draw my jeans and I was not that that kid I, I was good at English class history, those types of things. And I was starting to kind of consider, I had an older brother, he was already in college. So there was college speak around my house. And I was starting to think what am I going to do with my life? What do I want to study in college? And I had no idea and I realized I was I was okay at a lot of things. But I wasn’t great at one thing. And about this time in my life, I started to kind of wake up spiritually. Whereas before I had zero interest or Inklings towards anything spiritual. And so I for wherever I was at at that time, I guess, I guess you could call it a prayer I, I asked God, like, I want to be great at one thing. I don’t want to be okay at a bunch of things. And about two weeks later, so we had Betty Edwards. She had just published a book a few years before or pretty recently, drawing from the right side of the brain. And I went to high school in Hawaii at a private school and they had a huge Endowment for the Arts. And so they had Betty Edwards, come in and do a workshop.

NIKKI
Oh, wow. Oh, that’s amazing.

ELLI
Yeah. And she was, you know, talking about her book. And we went through these different exercises, and just something happened to me. And only thing I can think of is just my right brain that was sound asleep, just flipped on. And I was a very left brain person. And that was the first time my right brain I think, was that activated. And I literally learned to draw overnight pretty much and wow. And my drawings weren’t like, outstanding, but it went from stick figures to actual rendering of form, I was able to see color see nuance see lines and how things go. And form was super exciting to me. So I got a passion for art at that point. And so I kind of against my parents, you know, they didn’t really like it, you know, that I was gonna go into art, but I got a scholarship to Savannah College of Art and Design, but at the time, they were a new school. And pretty much everybody got a scholarship, it was it was more like a coupon or a Groupon, you know. And so, but my parents didn’t know that. And, and they actually, they had this big recruiting thing, because they were so new, and they flew me out there to check out the school. And so my parents were just really impressed that a school would fly me out there and give me a scholarship. So my dad could like brag to his friends that his daughter got a scholarship to an art school or something. So anyway, that was the only way I really got to go. And, and my boyfriend at the time, John, who’s now my husband, he went with me, and my dad really wanted me to marry a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer or something like that. Of course. Yeah, that’s gonna take care of me.

NIKKI
Was he already an artist before?

ELLI
Yeah. Oh, John. Yeah, he was born an artist and completely dysfunctional, and anything else? Yeah. He’s just true artists. Okay. So yeah, my dad did not approve of him at all. And so yeah, we went to art school, and then they were going to lose their accreditation. So my dad put his foot down, about me staying there. And getting a degree from, you know, a school that’s going to lose its accreditation, but they didn’t end up losing it, or they left, they only lost it temporarily, something like that. Anyway, so I transferred to University of Georgia, graduated from University of Georgia, and worked at a bank for a year. And I was in that same situation, a lot of artists are in where I my plans were, I’m going to just work this job, that’s just a job to pay the bills. And meanwhile, I’ll moonlight as an artist and try to you know, get side gigs and, and that and so that’s what I did for about a year. And I would show my work in coffee shops and restaurants and things like that. And so one time I was having a show and a restaurant called Last Resort grill in Athens, Georgia, you probably know the place.

Nikki

7:54
I don’t but I was there probably a lot earlier than you were.

Elli

7:58
Yeah, they’re still in business today. So maybe they weren’t quite there yet. Yeah, in 89. Well anyway, they featured a new artist every month. And so I was the feature artists that month, and a lady from Atlanta saw my art, who owned a decor art company. And she invited me for an interview and I went, I got the job. And so for a year I commuted from Athens to Atlanta, which is pretty rough. Yeah, that’s like two hours one way. Oh, wow. And I painted from nine in the morning till five o’clock in the afternoon, every single day. And that was like a complete shock to my system. Like my first week, I just I didn’t think I could live through it. It was just like draining, you know, to be able to have to paint that much.

Nikki

8:43
Yeah, artists don’t generally don’t generally paint in the typical nine to five schedule.

Elli

8:49
Right. But I’m super thankful because it drilled into me that year, and built my stamina and helped me get to that point where I could. So then, within that year, this is I think the real shift of my Startist story, right is right, I didn’t like the job. I didn’t like my boss. It was I’d hated the commute. And I wanted out and I really wanted my freedom. So I made a power statement and I put it on my steering wheel. And I would just read it all the way to work all the way home, how was going to be free. I was going to be a full time artist on my own freelance, you know, own my own art business. I wrote things like my art is sought after all over the world. I sell my art faster than I can create it, things like that. And I found out through this job through a friend you know, in the that was one of the administrators of one of the art reps that sold some artwork for this company. And he lived in Atlanta so I called him up and he met with me and I showed him my portfolio and what I what I had been painting for this company, and he told me Well, how much money do you need to make a week just to just to make it and I thought okay without the commute without gas See, blah, blah, blah $250 a week, right? And so, so I told him well, $250 a week is and and he said, Okay, well, if you get me 100 paintings, I will guarantee that you’ll make at least $250 a week, even if I have to pay you out of my own pocket 100 paintings 100 paintings and I was like, Oh, okay. I said, I said, I’ll see you in a month. Wow. And I thought that’s my ticket out. I just have to, you know, spend every waking moment painting. And so I kept my job and I so I painted all day at work. And then I came home and I painted till about midnight, oh, my gosh. And then on the weekends, I just painted nonstop. And you know, I produced 25 paintings a week on my on my own outside of my work and got 100 paintings together in a month. And because I knew if I just did that, if I just got 100 paintings, I was free. And so

Laura

10:59
How big are these paintings?

Nikki

11:02
Different sizes, but a lot of them were on like half sheets of paper. So 2022 by 30, right? Yeah. So they were like 1824 ish. And somewhere a little bigger. And yeah, so I gave him the paintings, a big pile of paintings. And he was kind of surprised. And so he didn’t expect that you’d be able to do it. No, he told me later, he just told me that to get rid of me. If I heard Oh, 100 paintings all took me years. But I just thought you could do anything for 30 days. So right? I just really thought through Can I actually pull off 25 paintings in one week, and I just broke it down. On Sunday, I could do this on Saturday, I could do this, you know, from from seven o’clock until midnight, I can do this. And and I didn’t have kids at the time. I it was just, you know, me and John. So, and John helped me like, furnish them and nice peel tape. And…

And you had the energy of a younger person?

Elli

12:00
Yeah. So yeah, that’s really how I did it. And so I quit my job right then. And I got my first check. And it was $350. And I was like, shocked, because I was expecting 250. And he’s paying me out his pocket. And it’s gonna take a while before we start selling my paintings. And he said, No, I sold the painting this week. And that’s your cut, because he would sell it to resell it. And then we shared, we shared it. So it was like 5050. So he sold the painting for I guess, 700. And I got, I got 350 bucks. And from that point on every week, I would give him artwork, he would give me a check. And it just kept growing from that point. Nice. And yeah. So that’s how I got into it.

Laura

12:38
And what medium were you using at the time? I’m curious.

Elli

12:42
It was a lot of mixed media. So it was acrylic, and different, like modeling paste, and that kind of thing, some collage, but also oil. So some were oil painting, some were mixed media, it was it was a whole, you know, range.

Nikki

12:55
And did he give you any guidelines on what he wanted, or you could just paint whatever you wanted?

Elli

12:59
I think he told me like, when he when he went through my portfolio, he was like, Yeah, I can sell this, I can sell that don’t do any more of this, this is more what I want. Okay. And then I didn’t have a lot of landscapes, but he told me that transitional landscapes is what’s really selling, or where he can sell a lot of. And so that’s kind of, you know, loose abstracted landscapes. And so I did a lot of those. And they’re pretty quick to you know, I could I could do one and maybe like two hours. Nice, very cool.

Laura

13:30
It’s actually interesting, because you have a course out there about how to use acrylic under paintings, and then use oil on top to sort of quicken your whole process. And I actually took that class. Oh, cool. I wanted to learn a little bit more about Milan Institute, and I really enjoyed learning, you know, the washes and the different ways that you apply, made me think, oh, I need to try that. Because just working in oil can be so slow that process. So that was really a cool course that’s out there. I think it was really reasonable too. So it’s fun for people to try.

Nikki

14:03
Let’s get back to your story from where you you’re painting for this art rep who’s selling your paintings… And then how long did you do that?

Elli

14:13
Well, I worked with him for several years and and off and on for almost 20 years. But oh, wow. That year, John got kind of inspired because he was still commuting to Atlanta and he was working for a different company, as an assistant to another artist. So he would do all like the prep work and or literally just copy his work. So he would just do production. And he wanted out and he wanted, you know, free and he saw that I was doing it and that my ink I was making more money than him. And it was it was like ready to go because he could work with the same people. And so and I had expanded to a wholesaler in the region in Atlanta, that specialized in landscapes basically. And so I was working with two people the rep and a wholesaler. And so John, he was able to quit his job. And then he started making more money. So we were doing pretty good at that point. And we decided to move to Arizona because we had our first child and my parents lived there. And John’s mom lived in San Diego. So it just made sense. So we moved out west and connected with more dealers, and just kind of began accumulating dealers. So we would just, you know, paint, paint paint, and they would sell it. And that kind of created a draw on our work. And then I would say it was about 2005. We there was probably one of the best dealers in the country that are maybe the world that that we wanted to work with, out of Canada. And also he had a place in Toronto, or Buffalo. Sorry, Buffalo Toronto is is Canada. Yeah. Okay. Buffalo is what I meant. And anyway, he, he told us one day, he came to our studio, and he looked at our work to see if he wanted to work with us. And he said, You know, I can see you guys are really talented. But I’m just waiting for you to make some paintings that are any good. I was like, and so John’s like, Oh, what a jerk. I don’t want to work with him. And I was like, Alright, we got to work with this guy. Like we that’s that’s those are fighting words. You know, I’m, I’m gonna make something he’s gonna sell.

Nikki

16:21
Did he give you any idea of what he would have considered good?

Elli

16:26
Yeah, he wanted abstracts. And he was in a higher end of the decor market, kind of where collector and decor kind of kind of intertwine or touch. And so he was looking for more edgy, contemporary things, then, you know, ours were a little too old lady for him. And so

Nikki

16:46
Well that sounds like a good problem to have, because then you get to explore more exciting possibilities in your work.

Elli

16:53
Yeah, totally. And he was right. Our work just wasn’t good enough for him. Honestly, it was because we were sort of stuck in this niche of it was decorative. Yeah. And it was in this sort of, you know, box of what we were selling, we had found a market and it was very lucrative in that market. So of course, we just kept painting. We were capable of more, but we didn’t have cars yet for that. So right. So then I don’t know, do you want me to? This is a kind of a cool story of how we ended up working with this guy. But I don’t want to like I don’t know, talk too much about my story.

Nikki

17:26
I’m fascinated by it.

Laura

17:27
Yeah, we’d love to hear it.

Elli

17:29
Okay, so we were kind of in the slump. This guy had just told us, you know, we weren’t any good. And we kind of saw it, or at least I saw it, and I and I, but I couldn’t get out of it. And you’re in that trap of you got you’re paying the bills, you know, by making this art. So we just wanted to change. And we had our three daughters at the time. So Dimitra, my oldest is five, three, and one. And we decide we need to just change things up. And we’re going to move to Greece. Wow. Yeah. And we just, we just needed something. So we decided we’re gonna move to Greece for six months, lived there for six months at the time, the visa was six months and rent an apartment and just be artists there. And till we get inspired, or something happens, why not? Yeah. And we kept trying to make these abstracts. And both of us were just terrible, just couldn’t do it and just couldn’t get it down. couldn’t manage it. We even tried copying some abstracts to figure it out. Just it was and we just kind of resigned ourselves to we’re not abstract artists, we just don’t do that. So we’re in Greece, and we’re we’re painting and the dealer, they are our main dealer. That was our main source of income in Arizona, double crossed us while we were away, and he started printing our artwork and putting it in Costco. Wow, as prints. And not even not even asking permission. Number one and number two, not paying us. Oh, wow. Yeah. That sounds like a lawsuit. Yeah. So we’re, we’re getting phone calls. And I mean, you know, emails and messages from friends are like, Yeah, I saw your artwork in Costco. Like, what? So we, we called the guy and we’re like, what are you doing? And, and he was basically like, this is my right, because I sell your art and you need me and you would be nothing without me. So if you don’t let me basically steal from you. Oh, my gosh, I’m done with you. And you’ll you’ll never so he kind of was trying to blackmail us never paint again. Yeah, you’re you’ll starve and you’re in Greece, and you need it, you know, and it was true, because our eggs were mostly in his basket. So I was like, well, we’re not going to like give into you blackmailing us so I guess we’re not going to work with you. And you know, we’ll deal with what you’re doing, you know, when we get back so anyway, our income just died right there. Nothing wrong and we’re in this foreign country. It’s not like we could go wait tables or something to make things happen, right. And so Anyway, we were in a little bit of a pickle and finances were not good. And we still had like three months left on our trip. And so, one day Dimitra came in my five year old. And in the back of my mind, I’m like, I want to work with that guy in Canada. That’s our ticket into, you know, this is almost like an invitation. This is doors closing, which is what we wanted, honestly, you know, just not in that way. And we wanted to go up a level. So Right. But we just couldn’t do abstracts. We were just terrible at abstract. So anyway, Dimitra came in one day. And she said, Mommy, can I paint? And I was like, Yeah, and I had an acrylic palette with some paint leftover on it. And we had like, a floor of just crazy paintings, because we kept trying, you know, and I said, just grab any painting off the floor, and go ahead and paint on it. So she, she took this painting, it was like a beach scene of some guy looking out over the horizon. And she started painting on it. And she’s using her hands, and she’s just kind of all into it. And I looked down after a few minutes, and I was like, I’m like, okay, stop, stop. And I took a picture of it. And I sent it to the dealer in Canada, as abstract and I sent it to the dealer in Canada, and I said, What do you think of my new work? And he loved it. And he loved it. And he’s like, he’s like, if you send me 20 Of those, I’ll buy them right now.

Nikki

21:17
And so…so child labor began.

Elli

21:22
Yes, exactly. I went to Dimitra. I’m like, Okay, Dimitra Do you know, you did such a good job, here’s some paper. And, and we look at it, she had drawn the clothing line, you know, because everybody in the city puts her clothes out on clothing lines, you know, and so, so she’s drawing like little dresses hanging on clotheslines with like little polka dots on the dresses, and, and all these like kind of little kid versions of buildings. And I was like, Okay, that is not, is not this painting. So I was like, this isn’t gonna work. And I was like, you know, I’m a professional artist, I’ll just copy exactly what she did. And, and it’ll be like, I can just start with the copy. And then once I figure that out, I can maybe make a spin off of it, and I’ll get a figured out. So I tried to copy it. And it was terrible. I just couldn’t do it. And so John’s like, pass it here. I’ll fix it. So I pass it to John. He works on it. And I’m like, it’s a little better. But it’s tear. It’s still bad. Give it back. And so we passed it back and forth, back and forth, many times. And we finally had two paintings that looked like it was done by the same artist. And I was like, Okay, let’s try it again. And so it took about five, six paintings of collaborating, going back and forth, before we could actually do it. And the interesting thing is, we had tried so many times in the past to collaborate. But we never made something better together. We at the end of it, we were like, I kind of like my own paintings better than this. So we didn’t really collaborate well. But this was our only way we were able to reproduce what my daughter had done, my five year old daughter had done is is through collaborating. And so we put 20 paintings together, and send them off to the dealer. And he bought them all, and sold them immediately. And then that’s amazing. Yeah. And then it was just like, from that point on, I think for like eight years, we worked with this guy, and we probably sold him over 20 paintings every single week. Wow. Yeah. And so we were producing just probably like 80 paintings a month 80 to 100 paintings a month. Which is kind of ironic, because that’s how I started, right set. Now John and I are doing it together. And we had a process and it was just kind of, you know, just knocking out lots of work. But that really got us out there and more known and able to, you know, be in all kinds of galleries. And so it was it was good.

Nikki

23:56
That’s a great story. Do you still have a photo of the original one that you did with your daughter?

Elli

24:01
Yeah. And you know, what I just found two, three days ago was going through old photos. I just found the painting that we did. That supposedly looks just like it.

Nikki

24:11
I would love to see those two paintings. Can you share those with us?

Elli

24:15
Yeah, I can send them. Yeah.

Nikki

24:18
Amazing.

Laura

24:19
Yeah, that’d be fun to share in the show notes.

Nikki

24:21
Definitely. So that abstract style is very different sounding from what you guys are doing now. I’d love to hear a little bit about just the development of your work. And then I really want to get into how you started the school.

Elli

24:37
Yeah, well, I think that abstracts for a long time, years, it was representational work. And then it was abstract work. And they were in two different spheres of my brain, you know, and it’s like I couldn’t put it together. And slowly after the abstracts just became second nature. We tried doing abstracted landscape. And then abstracted botanicals and then abstracted. So we kind of develop this language of sort of abstract realism where there’s this portion that’s rendered out very realistically. And then as the edges sort of go into the background, it fades into abstraction. And you can kind of see this coming and going of the abstraction. And that took a long time to figure out I mean, I think that’s probably one of the most difficult ways to paint at least it was for me to make both ways work together. Well, yeah, and not look like this and that or a realistic thing plopped onto an abstract background.

Nikki

25:37
Right.

Elli

25:38
So so that kind of dominated John and I’s collaborative style for years, and we still collaborate and paint that way. In fact, that behind me, that’s kind of that that idea. Those are, those are collaborations. Nice. And, and then, four years ago, I just told John, like, I really want to make because I was teaching all these artists how to find their own voice. And, and I was like, you know, I don’t even know if I know what my own singular voice is. I know what my voice is with John, but I don’t know, what my voice is. And it started to kind of feel weird to me that, you know, like, I’m, I’m, you know, a pretty strong minded person. And I was thinking it shows, yeah, I was thinking, That’s so weird. Like, what kind of example am I, if I’m, like, I knew my voice was my husband, you know, it’s like, I don’t know, I felt like almost like a hypocrite. And so it was really interesting, about four or five years ago, as I’m teaching this whole, you know, group of, of artists, how to find their voice, I was going through it with them. And I was telling them, you know, I’m finding my voice right along with you. And I’m going through the same exercise as you are. Because I for all these years, I’ve just painted collaboratively with John. And that was the year John took the Mastery program. So that’s one of our programs, our one year program in our school, that teaches artists how to have a profession as an artist, and a part of it is finding their voice. So John, that same year was finding his voice apart from me. And so it was such a wild year and, and I was shocked at what came out to me. And it ended I used to make fun of well, to myself in inside of myself, I made fun of a what do you call that? That kind of fantasy art? I didn’t I didn’t like fantasy art. And it was like, a genre like almost like, I don’t know, what are those movies that are futuristic? Sci Fi kind of cheesy? Yeah, like sci fi movies. It was like that kind of like how sci fi is to movies. That’s to me fantasy is to art. So I just I didn’t like it. I just was repulsed by it. And all of a sudden, I’m a I’m painting, you know, Pegasus and unicorns and all this stuff. And I was like, What is going on between this come from? Yeah, and I was having this like, internal crisis of like, and I’m like, it’s because I judged it, you know, what you judge you become, that’s what’s happened, you know? And, and then I just connected the dots, you know, of, you know, where it all came from. And the years I spent on my dad’s lap, listening to his stories about Greek mythology, and who told me about Pegasus, and I would imagine myself writing Pegasus, and racing through the stars. And just all those stories just captivated me. And I found out I was Greek and I, I didn’t think about modern Greece, because I didn’t understand that as a kid. I thought, Oh, I’m Greek. I’m one of these heroes. I’m one of these, one of these mythological things. And so yeah, so that that became, you know, a big part of my work and, and then I started to embrace it. But that was such an interesting thing, because there was a lot of like, crying and resistance.

Nikki

28:58
Why am I doing this thing I hate?

Elli

29:01
Yeah. And I’m sure you guys can relate, you probably have your own, you know, trail of stories similar, but yeah, yeah. So that that’s kind of how I, it’s really like a lot of its self acceptance, and embracing who you are, and, you know, connecting the dots of what your superpower is, and your destiny and all those things. And so it really began to make sense for me. And, and so now, I guess the place I’m at right now is I do both I have my own work that has its own distinct style. And so as John and we also collaborate and so we have kind of between us three different styles that we’re working in.

Nikki

29:38
Nice, nice balance.

Laura

29:39
Very cool.

Nikki

29:40
So talk to us about how you got the school started. So when you’re finding your voice like that, it sounds like the school is already established because you’re teaching John goes through it, but where where in the process, did you start it? How did you start it? How did you grow it?

Elli

29:59
Yeah, it was, well, I’ve had a sort of a vision since I was 19, an Art School of I saw a movement in art. And it wasn’t, it wasn’t like an art movement with an art, you know, like impressionism or, you know, minimalism or something like that, like all the other art movements. This was like, an art movement that hit the Earth, you know, like, it’s, it’s touching government, it’s touching hospitals, it’s touching education. It’s hitting every facet of society. And it was like, a renaissance, like, you couldn’t deny art. It’s everywhere. And everybody’s an art collector and art is it. So I saw that when I was 19. And I knew, you know, I was I was going to get to live this out. And this was going to be, you know, what happens during my life. And but I could never really see how does this work? You know, what, when? When am I going to see that? And how do we get there? How do I get there? In 2009, we moved to this property. And it was, it was on acreage, and there was a big 2000 square foot multipurpose building. And I thought, okay, that is like a dream studio. But we needed about where it was this in Arizona, okay. And we needed about $25,000 or so to finish it out, because it was just a shell of a building, and no AC nothing. And we didn’t have the money, because that was after the crash, and oh eight and just things were pretty tight. Anyway, it was like this building kept teasing me and looking at me every morning, when I painted in, you know, a hot dusty garage, or a spare bedroom or something. And so, I was kind of frustrated, because I kept, I kept asking God for the money and nothing seemed to click or happen. And so one day, I was just like, alright, obviously, I’m not getting the money for this. And that’s not what I’m supposed to do. So I guess this building will just sit there on the property. I was like, having kind of that moment like God, do you? Do you even exist? You know, like, what? How come you’re not answering anything I’m asking for where are you? So I was like, how about this, just to see if you’re still real? Tell me what you’re going to answer. And I’ll just pray that, you know, because this isn’t working. And so it’s just kind of quiet and just listening. I sit in my kitchen. And all of a sudden I heard the words. I’m ready to give you your art school now. And I was like, what? I don’t even want an art school. Like, where did that come from? It was not at all in my it wasn’t anything I wanted. It wasn’t it wasn’t a desire. It was nothing I had planned. It was you know, I’m an artist, and I just go paint. And so I was like, where it? What is that? And so I thought all right, well, okay, give me my art school, but with it, the desire to have one and gosh, like, the knowledge like I gotta, I gotta know how to pull this off. Like, I don’t know how to do it. And I’d really never taught before I wasn’t, is way out of my league. And so, so that was just kind of like a weird thing. And I tell John about it. And that was about it. So John’s the only one that knows this strange experience. Okay, so I got an opportunity to go to Ukraine to teach. And so to teach at an art institute there for free, it was a volunteer work. And and so I’m like, Well, I’m gonna do that. Because because it was kind of on the heels of this other thing. So I was like that that seems to fit. Get some experience. Yeah. So I go to Ukraine do that. I’m gone for like two weeks. My mom is picking me up from the airport. And All she knows is I’m trying to get 25,000 together to finish out the studio. It’s all she knows. And so she picks me up from the airport, and she goes, You are not going to believe what happened while you’re gone. And I was like what she said, Well $26,000 fell out of the sky for you, not 2526. And I was like, what? I have $26,000 She’s and so it was this like convoluted thing with an inheritance. And wow, wow, unexpected inheritance thing. And I was I was just shocked. And of course immediately connect all the dots. And I’m like, Alright, art school, Ukraine. 26,000 falls out of the sky. And then as soon as we got working on the building, which took about two months to complete, as soon as we got building it, I had a friend call me and she said, I have a ladies group that is dying to learn art. Have you ever considered teaching art classes? And I was like, Well, no, not until very recently. Yeah. So so that was my first art class was these ladies. And we did like a three day workshop. And it was scheduled like basically two, three days after the building was complete. And these ladies painted in my studio before I ever did. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so I started the school that year. And and then a year later, a full year later. I’m with a friend and we’re driving somewhere and she’s like, how’s it going? I said, I said I quit. I’m closing school day. On to dumb idea. It’s terrible. I hate it. And she’s like, Why? Why are you and I said, I have five students the whole year, I’ve had five students. And over the years, so many artists would ask us, How are you doing it, we want to learn, we want to learn for you. But I didn’t have any kind of platform or way to teach them. So I thought the school makes sense. But I had five students, that’s, that’s the only people I could get to learn from me. And she’s like, Well, don’t quit what happened to you know, this is God’s idea, and whatever. And I was like, I don’t know, I think I made that up. I have five students. Nobody likes my school. And she’s like, well, send me your website, and I’ll look at it, and maybe you’re doing something wrong. And I was like, Oh, I don’t have a website. And she’s like, website thing? How are you going to have an art school that anybody take serious without a website? And I’m like, Yeah, I guess I should have a website. And what year was this about? 2010? To that at the end of 2010? Okay, yeah, so she, she got me thinking about all kinds of things that I was doing wrong. And so I was so I made all these changes, I learned how to make a website because up to that point, I had other people like build my my art website. So I learned how on Weebly, I learned how to make a website. And, you know, got a MailChimp account and, you know, started getting my ducks in a row. And sure enough, at the end of that second year, I had about 300 students that would come through each month. Wow. Yeah. So it like really changed over the course of a year, just by listening to my friend who had some good insight, and making some shifts and changes, then, I would say, for the next three years, it was teaching kind of older ladies, you know, that were tight, and watercolor how to get loose and get out of perfectionism. And, and then I finally started attracting younger artists who are just more serious artists that didn’t just want to do it as a hobby, but I wanted a career. And then we launched the Mastery program. And we put together that curriculum. And, and I was I had a vehicle now to actually train people, whether they ever touched paint before in their life, or they were already quite accomplished, didn’t really matter, a one year program where they just really immersed themselves and learned everything from classical skill, contemporary skill, and how to find their voice, and then how to brand and market and promote their artwork and make a living from it. And so we’ve been doing that since about 2014. And then in 2018, we brought it online. And so it’s been online since 2018.

Nikki

37:41
Amazing,

Laura

37:42
That’s incredible. And what you’re saying is like people who haven’t picked up a paintbrush before, or someone who has been doing it for 30 years, you’re saying either way, this program kind of takes you through on how to go from the whole art side as well as the whole business side. Yeah, it’s amazing progression that you’ve had and what’s interesting to me too is this is a family business now when I see Milan Art Institute because because I see you all on my Instagram and stuff as well. You It’s you It’s your daughter you’re teaching your husband is an artist, your son in law is doing like marketing your daughter is in your other daughter’s in Greece doing art an art residency program like this, you’ve created a bit of a family Empire haven’t it’s pretty impressive. How was that like to work with your family and not actually kill each other?

Elli

38:35
Well, we don’t ever want to kill each other, we get along really well. And but we have had some some tough times. And I’ve learned that if you if you just stay keep the conversation going, and you don’t just ice people out or not communicate your pain or you know what upsets you, you do get through it and you get through it closer. So we’ve always sort of embraced conflict and we raised them to like John and I we read in books don’t ever fight in front of your kids. And I think that’s garbage. Now John and I made a pact you know, we’re not going to call each other names, we’re not going to be nasty. We’re not going to degrade each other or you know, lash out but we argue and fight and not in a personal you know, attacking way but in a you know, we’re not on the same page here and my ways better and no My way is better you know that. And it’s it’s healthy for kids to see the resolution and to see you kiss and makeup and to see you you know get through it because it teaches them how to deal with conflict in a healthy way and a healthy way. So and you just basically discuss things you know, and just talk about and keep talking until you come to an agreement until there’s resolution. So, you know, we it’s not like we haven’t had conflicts or difficulties but we just keep the calm Association going keep talking them out. And so yeah, and now I would say we’re in a really good place, of course, as you’re growing and as you’ve, you’re trying new things. And, you know, we moved from Arizona to Georgia, and then to Florida, all those transitions, conflict arises and you have things to deal with. But I think just we’re very bonded, and we love each other, and we respect each other. So even though we don’t always agree, and there is conflict, sometimes we still stay friends, and we still, you know, still respect each other. So I think that’s, that’s important, and not to have the expectation that you have to always agree.

Laura

40:37
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And Elli, I have to admit, the first time I saw Milan Art Institute, I totally thought it was in Italy. And then I was like, Oh, wow, this is like, and then I realized it’s your name?

Elli

40:52
Yeah, it’s kind of a good thing. And kind of a bad thing. Yeah.

Nikki

40:55
Yeah. Wait, it’s called Milan, but they have a place in Greece. Tell us a bit about how so you had the Mastery program? And where did Art Social come in? How do they relate to each other? And where did the Greece residency come in?

Elli

41:14
Yeah, so Art Social is kind of an interesting thing. I would tell people in the Mastery program, you know, from years ago from, I don’t know, 2015 16, when we were in the marketing section, and I would be telling them, guys, like, you got to think bigger than what the social media is today. You know, this is what it is today. But 10 years from now, it’s gonna be very different, and you’re still going to be an artist. So you have to, you have to think outside of just Instagram or you know, a Facebook page, you have to you have to think holistically about social media and try to anticipate where things are going. And I would tell them all the time, the future is a decentralized social media. And you can see now it’s going that way. You know, Facebook and Instagram aren’t going to have success, not going to have a monopoly on all things forever. Because everything’s moving grassroots, and everything’s moving, decentralized. So, you know, if you’re, you know, an influencer, and you have a message, and you have something to offer, and something of value to give, you’re gonna have your own social media. And your followers will be on your social media. And what we’ll keep it all sort of, it’s almost like Facebook pages, but all over the internet with different platforms. And what will keep it sort of in it in Unity is a everybody will kind of tap into a central messaging and Notification Center. So if you’re on this social media, that social media, you’ll get all your notifications and messages sort of in one place. And I believe that’s, that’s coming as, as things get more decentralized, and there’s more social medias that come up. So simultaneously, we were experiencing with Kajabi. So Kajabi, is how we used to run Milan Art Institute. And we basically maxed out all their tagging system and their CRM, and just everything we just it just, they couldn’t handle the volume that we were doing. Wow. And so they. So it was just constant struggle. And we couldn’t really find something unless we built something from scratch. So since we have one of the owners is Ukrainian, my son in law, he has a lot of connections with tech people in Ukraine. We just decided, let’s capitalize on that and build out our own social media platform from scratch. So that whatever we can imagine whatever we want, if we wanted to build out a whole critiquing system, which we’re in the process of doing, we can do it. That’s amazing. Yeah. And so at the end of the month, so we’ve done it’s taken. We’ve been working on it probably about three years now. And we launched it about two years ago, a year and a half ago. And so yeah, so it’s the whole school is on there are clubs on there, which is almost like Netflix for artists. It’s like a live streaming service, has its own reality show, the outstanding artist, and then the social media. And at the end of the month, we are launching our first way of where people can sell their art on there. So when we’re not taking any percentage or anything, and we’re not responsible, but we’ve provided a mechanism where you can sell your art on there. And so we’re excited about that, that’ll launch at the end of the month. We’ve also built out a auction, a live streaming Auction Service. Oh, wow. And so we’re going to start small, where we’re running our own auctions with our art or our graduates art. And we also have an online gallery so that our graduates are in not all the graduates but the people in the gallery are our gadget graduates. And so Gotcha. So we’ll just start selling their art, you know, and working through sort of a marketing system for these auctions. And our big picture idea is to teach and train artists, but also provide opportunities for them to sell their art beyond just, you know, what they learned from us and applying it out there, we want to also provide actual opportunities where they can, they can sell their work.

Laura

45:19
Which is amazing, the support, because so much I think of what happens is people do leave a program or a school or something. And it’s kind of like now what, and if they can’t get traction on whatever platform they’re trying to sell their art in, then it gets it feels a little defeating, right. So being able to have an opportunity now to sell work in a supportive way is really fabulous.

Elli

45:40
And a common language. So like, the benefit we have is, is let’s just say somebody graduates, and they want to take part in some opportunity. And we look at their art, and it’s just like, well, they’ve kind of cut corners they haven’t really developed, they’re just kind of want the results, but they’re not doing the work. We have language now because they went through the Mastery program. And we can say, hey, you know, your skills here need work, the you know, your voice here is very derivative, you have to you have to do the things we taught you to do to get deeper in that and really come up with something that’s your own unique voice. You know, your website, or the way that you’re presenting yourself on social media isn’t isn’t something we can represent because you didn’t follow these steps. But we have a common education and a common, it’s because somebody on the outside that hasn’t taken a program. If you say that they’re lost, they’re like, Well, I don’t know how to do that. Nobody’s taught me that. I don’t I don’t even know what you’re saying. So that’s like a huge advantage that we see where we can get the caliber and the the level of art, you know, pretty high. And I think that will make us more distinguished, let’s say then something like Saatchi, where if you go on Saatchi, it’s like or fine art America, right? It’s just a hodgepodge of a free free for all. And you hardly want your stuff on there, because you’re associated with not so great work.

Laura

47:04
Right?

Nikki

47:04
Wow.

Laura

47:05
Now you also have a mentorship program to that if people graduate, then they can, you know, if they do need some additional assistance that they can get hooked up with a mentor.

Elli

47:13
Yeah, we have a lot of different kinds of mentoring. So basically, anybody can get mentoring right now you don’t have to be in our program. And so we have group mentoring, we have personal mentoring, we have just like a one time one on one call. And all the mentors are professional artists, they’ve all gone through the Mastery program, they’re all actively selling their work. And they’re trained. And so it’s it’s really good mentorship, and it’s kind of designed for people going through the Mastery program, if they want that sort of extra help, and not just kind of do it all by themselves. And then of course, like we have a graduate group mentoring that I’m pretty active. In fact, I just did a mastermind yesterday, with the graduates where we were, you know, talking in zoom, you know, live there have like a discussion and diving deeper into their portfolios and the work that they’re producing and seeing where can they push the envelope? Where can they get more unique, more distinct? Where can they kind of dive deeper in that. And so every month in that graduate group, there’s like a challenge that we focus on. So maybe email campaigns is going to be the focus one month, and so everything we’re talking about and teaching and diving into is about building email lists and selling through email, then the next month, it might be, you know, creating video content and all the ins and outs to that. So that’s sort of once you’ve graduated, the mentoring option that’s there, so that you can have a soundboard and people who are actively building their businesses and and ways to group up and collaborate. Like if you find artists that kind of live in the same vicinity. And you guys want to come together and do a pop up, and then run your popup idea, you know, through the group and we can troubleshoot. And you know, it’s just a great support and community to have with people that are all kind of rowing in the same direction.

Laura

49:08
Yeah, sounds amazing. Now, I have a question for you. Because one of the things we wanted to talk about today is perfectionism and how it holds you back. So clearly, you’ve sold over 10,000 paintings. If you have perfectionism, you’re not going to get to 100 paintings. And that’s, you know, I am somebody who struggles with that. I think, you know, where I have a lot of perfectionism holding me back, I overthink everything. Nikki gave me a sign that says let me overthink that. So so how do artists like you… you’ve done so much and youyou got past a lot of those types of hurdles. You know, how do you keep perfectionism from holding you back?

Elli

49:50
Yeah. Well, I think perfectionism is almost like a big wide net for a lot of things. And a lot of things people go through his art This aren’t, I would say, actually perfectionism, but it kind of fits all under that one umbrella. Because it’s a, it’s a very what’s the word? It’s a very noble label to give yourself for your issues. You know, I’m a perfectionist, I just want things perfect. Right? That sounds really good. That sounds noble. And, you know, like, it’s sort of the catch all excuse. And, and I’m not invalidating it, because I’ve struggled, I have struggled with perfectionism I have. And I feel like though there’s, at least it could be more, I don’t know, from what I’ve observed through other people, because I’ve noticed that my perfectionism that I overcame, is not the same as other people’s, and then I’d see another one kind of pop up that was a little different than that one. And by working with all these artists, I’ve kind of realized there’s three main kind of groups of, or types of perfectionism. And I think identifying sort of the one that you struggle with is, is and then there’s things that we call perfectionism, that I don’t think are perfectionism. And it’s like, again, just sort of a noble excuse for, for other issues. So anyway, within perfectionism, I, what I found, the one that I struggled with the most is expectation that there’s this outside expectation that’s either real or imagined. And I’m performing for an audience. And so it’s really the root of what I was dealing with was pride. Because I wanted the affirmation, I wanted the accolades I wanted, I wanted to measure up to something, and, and the fear of not measuring up and not being enough and not, and that, that I think, stemmed from a very root cause of I didn’t have value I didn’t have worth, I didn’t know my worth. And I was I grew up feeling worthless. I grew up feeling like I wasn’t valuable. And so I spent my whole 20s overcoming that. And I think that was the root of, of that perfectionism. Because you I want it to measure up, there’s this expectation, I believe it’s way up here somewhere. And, and others are holding me to that. And if I meet it, then I have value and worth, you know, but if I don’t meet it, then I’m worthless. And…

Nikki

52:25
I can relate to that so hard.

Elli

52:29
And it’s and you don’t want to be worthless. So then you don’t want to try, or you’re kind of like, in that I’m about to start. I’m about to do it. But I can’t, and I can’t and so you get stuck. And it because you want to measure up, but you don’t want to fall short. So you just in this, you know, agony.

Nikki

52:47
Yeah. Like if I never finish it and put it out there, then you can’t tell me it’s bad.

Elli

52:53
Right? Yeah. And, and then I think there’s another kind of perfectionism which I didn’t, I don’t think this but I’ve seen other people struggle with it. Because I would talk about that from my own experience. And people would just kind of be like, No, that’s not it. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, Okay, well, the must be other things involved here. So I’ve noticed that some artists have their own expectations. It’s not really from anybody else. It’s not an outside thing. It’s their own expectations. They just have excellence. And they want it to measure up to how they envisioned it. And they can’t let go of that vision. And they can’t hold that vision loosely. It’s got to hit their own expectation. And they’re very good at things, almost anything they touch, or do. They’re great. They’re really good at it. If they cook, they’re amazing cooks, if they organize a party, it’s the best party that ever happened that year. You know, they’re just naturally good at a lot of things. So their expectations for themselves are really, really high. And so those are the ones that kind of overwork, they’re not having a hard time getting started. But they overwork everything. And they, they that’s so me spend way too much time on things. And they’re just not going to let go of so far.

Nikki

54:10
I’ve got two out of two. Should we try for the trifecta?

Elli

54:17
Yeah, so and then I think there’s a third one that I’ve seen that’s kind of like the second one. But they have a vision, they have these expectations, but they really don’t have the skills. And they really just don’t come close to that vision. And they don’t realize that if they practice and they’re willing to be bad before they’re good, they’ll get there, and everything will be alright. So it’s not that they’re have too high of expectations, but they can’t live with the fact that their skills are at a level that they’ll never hit that expectation. So it’s sort of like, I’ll quit before I even try because I know I’m not going to win. I know I can’t do it. But the thing is cuz that’s everybody. You know, I mean, I have visions for myself right now that I don’t have the skills for I don’t have the ability for, but that’s life you have to, you have to work at things and grow and change and get better. And you don’t let that stop you. You don’t let that stop you because we’re all evolving. And it right. So the people who fall into that third category are the ones that let it stop them from even getting started. Yeah, and they won’t even try it. Right. And they’re the ones who will say, Oh, I’m, I’m too big of a perfectionist to do something like that. Yeah. Or they say, Oh, I can only draw flies. I can’t be an artist.

Laura

55:38
It’s kind of interesting, because that’s one of the things I’ve been finding with myself is I won’t be able to execute something the way I want. But now that I’ve gotten to a point where if if I get through that really like ugly middle phase in the last five minutes that comes together, like I could be working on something for four hours, and in the last five minutes, it’s like, oh, okay, now I like it. But it’s hard not to stop in that middle phase. Yeah. Right.

Elli

56:00
That’s, that’s another thing is, I think, every artist struggles with the beginning, the middle or the end, and I’m just like, you I stuck get stuck in the middle. And even though, I, I’ve gone through that so many times, every painting is ugly, you know, for me, and, and it’s It hurts my pride to show process pictures, because I’m like, Oh, it’s so ugly. And I lose faith on every painting. I mean, you think after all these years and 10,000 paintings, plus, I would clue in that the middle is ugly, and it’s not going to stay that way. You know, and you’ve pulled this off. A lot of times, this is not, you know, this isn’t any different. But every time I’m like, it’s like, I can’t paint anymore. What’s wrong with me, you know, and never finish a good piece again. Yeah. And, and sure enough, it all comes together in the end, and it ends up being, you know, one of my favorite pieces. But yeah, that ugly stage is just really rough. And then I think other artists, they just can’t get started, they stare at that white canvas. And it’s like, my daughter struggles with that Dimitra. And she, she, what goes through her mind is my idea is not good enough. Like, it’s not worth the effort to really build this out and create this painting, because it’s a cheesy idea. Or it’s just I could do better in the idea. So she wants to kind of rework her ideas, rework her ideas, and, and really not get started. And once you get started, she’s fine. And then other people have a hard time finishing, you know, they just, that could be, you know, a whole, all kinds of things. But I think, you know, maybe just sort of like what you touched on Nikki about if I finish this painting, then I can be judged. As long as it’s a work in progress, then there’s possibilities, you know, right.

Nikki

57:38
Yeah, I think I have a hard time finishing.

Laura

57:41
Yeah, I think that’s a whole episode, Nikki?

Nikki

57:43
Yeah. Wait about having a hard time finishing or about me having a hard time? Is it just a therapy session for me? Because I’m okay with that. I love that. I’ve never thought about the different types of perfectionism. So I think that’d be interesting to explore.

Elli

58:05
Yeah, and there could be more that I’m just not thinking of, or unaware of, you know, who knows?

Nikki

58:05
Oh, it’d be an interesting thing to just dive into even more. There was something else you said, when you said there’s three types of perfectionism. And then there was something else you were going to?

Elli

58:21
I mean, have you noticed that people who struggle with different things, they’re not ever embarrassed to say, I’m a perfectionist? It’s almost like a badge of honor, a badge of honor. Right. Right. And so I think there’s issues like, some people just struggle with discipline, you know, just it’s just good old fashioned, you struggle with discipline and guilty. Some I found in in students that, you know, they were raised in a cultural time period where self esteem was so valued, that parents didn’t create boundaries, because they didn’t want to harm the child’s self esteem. And so creating boundaries or expectations, or anything like that was taboo, because you could hurt they’re there. And what it did is it made a whole generation of kids feel like they’re not capable, or not have discipline, and not and not develop habits and work ethic. And so I’ve found that in least my generation, and among my friends, and maybe even people a little younger than me, and definitely in younger, younger kids. It’s like it’s gotten kind of worse as the years go. People really struggle with discipline. And if you’re going to do anything great in life, you have to have tremendous discipline, and self discipline, not outward hold, somebody’s holding you accountable. That’s for you know, the beginner stages of things. You really need to have your own metric for that and your own tricks to hold yourself accountable and to find what motivates you and to build consistency and work ethic. And so a lot of people that just struggle with that which is a whole nother topic and a whole nother thing that can be learned a whole nother thing that’s worth developing.

Nikki

1:00:04
A whole nother thing we might invite you back to talk about.

Elli

1:00:08
It’s a topic I really like but, and we incorporate, we call it professional habits, but we incorporate a lot of this into the Mastery program. And it’s, it’s life changing for a lot of people that really struggle with these things. And it’s not their fault. It’s not like their it’s not laziness, or it’s nothing like that. It’s simply skills that they weren’t raised with. And if you’re not raised with these skills, it’s a huge thing to overcome. And schools don’t reinforce it. There’s nowhere it’s really right for so if you if you aren’t, it’s not like you’re born with these skills nobody is. So if you’ve missed the opportunity to develop these skills and and seen examples of it that are healthy, then, and that’s another thing that happens is people see unhealthy, like dads that are workaholics or whatever. And they and then they flip and they and they kind of react against that. And so it causes them to not be disciplined, anyway. But I think a lot of people that struggle with discipline, and good habits, call it perfectionism. And maybe deep down. That’s a part of it. I don’t I don’t know. But I think I think that there’s more issues than just perfectionism that artists struggle with.

Nikki

1:01:18
Definitely, I would also say that a lot of perfectionism is fear.

Laura

1:01:23
Yeah, I would agree with that actually, Nikki.

Nikki

1:01:25
I mean, the three things that you describe the three types of them, they’re all fear-based. So it’s bad habits, or not having learned good habits and fear.

Elli

1:01:36
Yeah, and fear is the culprit of almost everything. Fear, fear and pride, like, just about everything we struggle with is fear and pride, you know?

Laura

1:01:46
Yeah. And it’s interesting, because I have incredible discipline, when it comes to my day job, I work in the finance world, actually, I’m one of those dual-brained people. And, you know, I am that workaholic person in that world. And I don’t create the the time and the balance and the discipline in my art world as much as I would like, because I lean towards that area. And there might be some excuses there, there might be some different areas of perfectionism are kind of getting in the way of me dedicating that time.

Elli

1:02:17
Probably what it could be, too is just because obviously, you don’t struggle with discipline, you’re a disciplined person, it’s just directed in somebody else’s dreams and not yours, right. And so right, probably at the base of that might be just believing in yourself and your dream, to the level that you’re willing to throw your whole heart and everything you have into that, you know, and then that goes back to the things we’re talking about with perfectionism. Because if you achieve it, if you if you measure up if you get there, you know, I think that goes to the whole I struggle with this big time, the fear of success, and really, at the root of the fear of success is the fear of failure, because what I fear is, Can I hold on to it? Can I maintain it? Can I keep it and so

Nikki

1:03:08
The expectations are higher when you have achieved a certain level of success.

Elli

1:03:12
Yeah, totally. And so then you fear you’re gonna like flop big publicly, right?

Laura

1:03:19
Right.

Elli

1:03:20
So that it could have something to do with that. Whereas if you’re, if you’re successful in the finance thing, it’s not so personal. It’s not you, it’s not reflecting on you. And so that fear of success isn’t there as like it is if you know, in your own art business. And so yeah, it’s all so complicated. And, you know, artists go through a lot of stuff, you know, dentists don’t go through this, so.

Nikki

1:03:46
No, they really don’t. They really don’t.

Laura

1:03:49
So tell us a little bit about the the Mastery program. Can people sign up for that anytime in the year? Or is there a particular time that that opens every year?

Elli

1:03:58
Yeah. So registration opens at the beginning of every month. So it’s the 1st through the 3rd of each month. So the next registration will be October 1. We do that so that there’s sort of a group that you’re going through. And you have your community.

Nikki

1:04:13
A cohort.

Elli

1:04:13
Yeah, a cohort.

Nikki

1:04:15
What we didn’t talk too much about yet is the the residency and retreats in Greece. Give us a little bit about that.

Elli

1:04:24
Well, we’ve been doing art retreats in Greece for the last 12 years. And so almost as long as the school has been around, and it started, because I would go to Greece every year just for vacation. And I just thought, Wow, this would be so great for other artists. And so we had students, they would always go, Oh, you’re so lucky. You’re going to Greece. And I was like, it’s basically like a family of 12 You know, trip to Greece, how they started. So anyway, we do that every year. But then this year, we started an artist and residency because we basically found on to a jewel have a place in Rhodes Greece, and the people who own it are super passionate about what we’re doing. And we just, it’s just it just such a great collaboration. And, and there’s so many opportunities for artists and roads. It’s a little city and island that wants to be known for arts and they want they they’re constantly supporting art shows, and artists to come. And so it’s really easy to give artists opportunities to show their work and be inspired. And the architecture is just blow your mind. It’s like you walked out of, I don’t know, King Arthur days, you know, it’s just magical. And the weather’s really nice in the winter. Yeah, so my daughter Daphne and her husband, Nathaniel, who’s really great at creating media content. And he’s a photographer. And my daughter, Daphne’s fantastic artists mentor. She’s taught a lot. And so she and her husband are running this artist and residency, and putting together the shows and teaching our classes and running critiques. And so it’s an opportunity for artists to go for two weeks or a month, or up to three months, in roads this winter. And yeah, and it starts soon. So November 1, will be the first group that comes.

Laura

1:06:23
I want to go to Greece.

Nikki

1:06:24
Amazing. Laura, I think probably not this year, because we’re already we’re already booked. But I think maybe next year, a little Startist Society…

Laura

1:06:34
Retreat in Greece…

Nikki

1:06:36
Retreat in Greece with Milan Art Institute.

Laura

1:06:39
That sounds fabulous.

Elli

1:06:40
Yeah, that’d be cool.

Laura

1:06:42
So Elli, where can our listeners connect with you online?

Elli

1:06:47
So we have kind of the hub is milanart.com. You can find anything from that it’s sort of like a mall directory, you know. So milanart.com, you can find anything. But we have a lot of different websites and platforms, different things. So milanart institute.com, Art Social, is another great hub, you can find almost everything there. And then on social media, I think our YouTube channel is a great place to find a lot of free content that’s, I think, pretty valuable for artists. And Art Social is the name of it. And on Instagram, Milan Art Institute, Elli Milan.

Nikki

1:07:30
We will link to all of these in the show notes. So remember Milan Art just as a place to start. And we’ll link to everything in the show notes. And one last question for you. What’s next? You’re juggling so many things. I bet you have another new thing on the horizon.

Elli

1:07:48
Yeah, so our business is based on sort of three legs or three pillars and so the school art education, art community, which is art, social, and then art patronage. And so the newest or least developed is art patronage. The school is really established and kind of on autopilot. Besides, you know, the daily love we put into it. But it’s we’re not, of course, developing too much. And art social is pretty established and humming along. And so this year, we’re already starting, like I said, with the auctions and integrating into art, social gallery and galleries. And we have just lots of plans, lots and lots of plans of everything from live experiences. Like we have one in Miami coming up in October, I saw that yeah, where there’s like an art show combined with a kind of like a conference or workshop and graduation. So there’s a whole thing there. And we want to do more and more of that combined with online art sales, social media, sales, auctions, VIP events, collectors, retreats, I mean, we have a whole kind of like what we’ve done with the school but and really what drives the schooling. This is important for artists to hear what drives the school. And our main, I think our main voice or vibe to it is we believe with all our heart that art is powerful, and it changes the world and artists all have a purpose and a destiny to create art as a service to the world to bring change and to bring transformation and collectively and individually we do that and it is a movement. So that is also true for art collectors. And that is something the gallery system has missed. That is something that few talk about that the art collector, the patron the buyer is also a world changer is also there’s purpose and patronage. You know, when you buy a piece of original art, you’re changing the world. And people need that identity. They need that connection that what they’re doing is virtuous, what they’re doing should be celebrated to be celebrated. And you know, they’re the heroes of culture and they’re there. Think about it. In a world, you know, we won’t get into it but a world that’s weird right now, creativity and a creative lifestyle and creative expression is our one guarantee against the oppressors. It’s our one guarantee against tyranny. Because if you look at any culture, any society that’s ever flourished and been prosperous, and been free, and had liberty, there was a lot of art going on, there was a lot of creativity. And conversely, any culture, society or event where there’s been tyranny or oppression, poverty and difficulty, you don’t see the arts free. So every time you buy art, and you create art, you are guaranteeing our future prosperity, our future freedom. So our future Yeah, our future. Exactly. So and it’s not just artists, because we can make all the art we want. But if it’s not seen, circulated, there’s not an exchange created, appreciated. It’s like a trading floor. Yeah, there has to be an exchange. And once that exchange happens, and the more times that exchange can happen, that’s what guarantees the purpose. That’s what guarantees what the art is all about and, and sort of ekes out the future. So there’s a lot of just as much purpose and destiny and art collecting as there is in art creating. And that’s our main sort of message and platform for auctions and building community among collectors and connecting collectors with artists instead of leveraging it and keeping them separate.

Laura

1:11:47
I love that it’s the circle, right? It’s connecting that circle of the patronage with the artist and providing the platform for that. So I’m excited to see how that evolves.

Nikki

1:11:57
Me too. It’s beautiful.

Laura

1:11:58
So Elli, we would love to talk to you for like another hour. Thank you so much for being on the show today. This has been awesome.

Speaker 3 1:12:07
Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, it was a super fun conversation. I appreciate you both.

Nikki

1:12:11
It has been fantastic. To learn more about Elli Milan and read today Startist Society show notes go to startistsociety.com/ellimilan.

Laura

1:12:23
And that’s two L’s.

Nikki

1:12:24
In Elli, not Milan.

Laura

1:12:27
If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, we’d love for you to share it with a friend. Sharing helps us reach more Startists like you and keeps us inspired to create new episodes. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.