106 – Building an Audience and Community with Charly Clements

Laura

0:06
Hi, this is Laura Lee Griffin.

Nikki

0:08
And this is Nikki May with the Startist Society, inspiring you to stop getting in your own way and start building an art biz and life that you love.

Laura

0:17
We are artists who believe strongly in the power of community, accountability, following your intuition, taking small actionable steps and breaking down the barriers of fear and procrastination that keep you stuck.

Nikki

0:30
Follow along with us on our creative business journey as we encourage you on yours.

Laura

0:39
Charly Clements is an illustrator and mentor who has built a thriving illustration business, licensing her art to amazing clients all around the world, and has taught tens of thousands of students through her online classes as a top teacher on Skillshare. And through her new course, Out of This World Portraits. She is the founder of Facetober and has built an incredible online community. And I have to say ,she creates the coolest modern portraits on her iPad in Procreate.

Nikki

1:06
Okay, and not only did she have all these incredible accomplishments under her belt, but she’s done it all as a digital nomad, and is currently living and working in Thailand.

Laura

1:16
Charly, welcome to the Startist Society. We’re so excited to chat with you today.

Charly

1:21
Thank you for having me. What a lovely introduction as well.

Nikki

1:26
Well, it’s easy to have a lovely introduction, when we have somebody who has done so many cool things. We’d like to get everybody started by hearing their Startist story; how they got started with art and creativity and turned it into a business, then ended up where you are now. So fill us in.

Charly

1:45
Alright, so Wow, where do I start? So I’ve, I’ve always loved illustrating from a young age, but I think everyone can relate when I say that you’re told from a young age, as well, that you can either do it as a hobby and find a job that will actually make you money. And I remember believing that for a very long time just thinking I could never make money from it. I studied graphic design at college and fell in love with that, and decided to apply for university to try and get a degree in illustration. And I think this might be quite inspiring for a lot of people, I was turned down by all five of my universities I applied for.

Nikki

2:29
Oh, wow.

Charly

2:30
And I remember thinking that everything had ended, my world came crumbling down, and I remember thinking maybe, maybe this isn’t for me. So I decided to do an Art Foundation for a year, and didn’t give up on my dream and decided to reapply after that year and managed to get into a five. So perseverance is key here, guys.

Nikki

2:54
That’s amazing. It’s great that you didn’t let that stop you from following your dream.

Charly

3:00
I know, it was very touching guy, there was an Art Foundation quite local to me, and I just decided to go for it because I knew that I needed to build up my portfolio a little bit. And my passion was illustration and graphic design and I didn’t want to stop there. And when I got into university, it was a great course, but I did find that they didn’t really teach me how to kind of survive outside of uni. So after the three years, I managed to get a job at a greeting card company and I was doing that as a kind of practicing. And what happened was they offered me the job and I had already agreed to move to Berlin with my partner. So this was in the UK. So I had a really difficult decision to make whether to kind of get this really, really secure job, a job that I loved, it was creating greeting cards or move to Berlin with no idea what I’m doing and try and make it on my own. And I chose the latter.

Nikki

4:04
That’s a tough choice.

Charly

4:06
It was a really difficult choice. And I remember thinking, Have I made have I made a mistake? And I moved to Berlin. And the first year was really difficult. I was working three part time jobs. I was working on my illustration business part time at the time, because I just didn’t have enough hours in the day. And I was trying to just set myself these really fun projects that I could do in the evening. And I would get back from maybe my babysitting job or working at the school that I was working in and I would just work on greeting cards, upload them to Etsy, and I was probably making about three or four sales a week at this point. But I just felt that everything that I done up to this point was always leading to, this is your passion, this is what you want to do, don’t give up. And I just remember saying that to myself every day. Just keep going Chary, you’ve got this. And after three years of doing this consistently, I started to get a little bit of traction with some of my greeting cards, I was approached by a few companies from the UK who wanted to license out my designs. And at the time, I was doing everything myself, I was printing out my designs, packaging them, taking them down to the post office. And the idea of art licensing was completely new to me. And I think I even had to look it up. I remember getting the email and they were like, can we license your artwork? I was like, I don’t even know what this is.

Nikki

5:33
What does that mean?

Charly

5:35
I should probably do some research on it. And I yeah, I researched it. And I was like, Wow, this sounds like an amazing opportunity. And I started to license out on a regular basis, my greeting cards to these two companies who found my work through Etsy, which I just want to say to the listeners out there as well, the importance of putting yourself out there, even though I wasn’t making sales, that definitely equated to these amazing licensing deals that I got after uploading them to Etsy.

Nikki

6:08
That’s fantastic advice.

Charly

6:10
Yeah definitely I can’t stress that enough. And I think when you get those little nuggets and those little signs from the universe, that you’re doing something by it just it helps you keep, keep going and putting yourself out there. And even though you don’t think anyone’s watching or seeing it, it just needs to fall into the right eyes of someone you know?. So I signed the contract with these companies and that opened up a whole new world to me. So I was still working in Berlin at the time, I started to make a little bit more money with art licensing and I got into this kind of rabbit hole of passive income because I started really falling in love the idea of wow, I could potentially be location independent, if I continue to do this art licensing. So after stumbling on that, I also found print on demand. So I started to upload my greeting cards to print on demand sites, I became quite an early adopter of Thoughtful, which is a greeting card company in the UK. They’re all online. And I had a lot of success with them back in the day, and I still do to this day, and I started to make enough money that I could start quitting my part time jobs.

Nikki

7:28
Excellent.

Charly

7:29
And another tip for you guys as well is, there is no shame in having part time jobs while you’re working on your business. Because I think a lot of people put so much pressure into thinking that they have to go full time straightaway. And that was not the case for me at all. It was a very slow build up. And I just built my confidence up over time and managed to finally wean myself off my amazing job at a local school, which I absolutely adored. But me and my partner had dreamed of moving away to Southeast Asia. And I knew that if that was the case, I would have to at least have some income on the wait. And at the time, I think it was two months before leaving, I was looking into getting a portable scanner to bring with me on my my travels. So at that time, I was only working through actually sketching, scanning in and then coloring everything through Photoshop with my mouse. So it was very old school. And I knew that I needed some form of scanner to travel with if I wanted to continue creating greeting cards for these companies. And yeah, I think it was two months before the iPad Pro came out.

Nikki

8:49
Ahhhhh, the heavens opened up and angels began to sing…

Charly

8:54
Rainbows and butterflies. Exactly It was, just the stars aligned. And I got the iPad Pro. I had no idea how to use it. But it was just such a game changer for me. So I started to create my greeting cards directly on the iPad. So I didn’t have to lug this heavy scanner around with me on my travels. And in 2016, that’s when we decided to sell all our belongings and start traveling Southeast Asia with just my iPad at the time. And it was amazing because it just opened up so many doors for me and I had quite regular clients at the time and I was working with the licenses and I was making just about enough money to live off while I was traveling. And then we just kind of did slow traveling where we’d stay in one place for maybe one month, two months where I would just create my greeting cards for clients and then travel around as well. And that was amazing.

Nikki

10:00
Yeah, I’m just kind of getting started doing the whole digital nomad thing, obviously, in a bus, so it’s all in the United States so far, but it’s a challenge to fit the work around the travel or the travel around the work. So I’d actually love to hear a little bit more about that.

Charly

10:19
Yeah. So it’s, it’s one of those things that when you first start, you get so excited about traveling, and you’re so excited about work. And it can be really hard to do both. So after a while, I realized that I had to kind of set myself some boundaries in terms of like, I’m going to do a week of work for this client, and then maybe take a week off, where I can explore a new place and fully embrace that place. Because I feel when you have your foot in kind of kind of dipped in both places, it can be really difficult to, to kind of get into both, you know, and I found that really difficult being in a new place. I’d never really been out of the country before. I think I’d only been out of the country out of the UK three times. And I’d never been out of Europe. And everything, my senses were just going crazy.

Laura

11:16
It’s an explosion.

Charly

11:17
It’s an explosion.

Laura

11:19
Just walking down the street with the street vendors and the smells and the yeah…

Charly

11:24
Exactly.

Nikki

11:25
Yeah, I love I love that idea of having dedicated on and off time for each because I’ve spent the last year trying to cram both in. And I feel like I’m doing the most exciting things of my life in both like art commissions that I’ve had and travel. And I I’ve been so worried about the other than I haven’t really fully enjoyed either. So I really love that idea of sort of a week on a week off, I’m going to see if I can figure that out. But anyway, let’s get back to yours.

Charly

12:02
So this takes me to about 2017, where I was just solely working on greeting cards. And I, I just loved that. That was something that I started in my last year of uni. I just really enjoyed that act of finding gap in the market at the time, there weren’t that many rude, funny greeting cards, would you believe it, there’s so many now. And I would always create these funny greeting cards for my friends and family as just a kind of side hobby just to make a little bit of extra money. So for me to actually see that I was making good money from something that I just really loved to do was such a game changer because it just opened up though that opportunity and also just made me realize there was so much more to this illustration world than I thought. And I didn’t want to just stop there. So after kind of getting my foot in the door with greeting cards, things were going really well with all my art licensing, I then decided to start looking into different areas that I can monetize my work, because at that time, I was just relying on client work. And I was relying on client work quite heavily at the time. And also art licensing, which was making about 30% of my income and also print on demand, which is amazing at the time. And yeah, it really skyrocketed. And, again, if anyone’s listening and thinking, licensing, it’s so slow at the beginning print on demand, it’s so slow at the beginning, I just want to reassure you that it is a waiting game. I made I think six pounds in my first month of being on Thortful. And I remember thinking, I don’t know if this is for me. And I said, Okay, I won’t give up. I’ll try and upload a few more. And I did that. I think I got 12 pounds by next month. But I kept doing it and started to see what was selling and what didn’t. And this is really important to be able to analyze what is working and what isn’t in your business is so important. So even if you’re not selling a lot, you can still gather that data to know what artwork is going to sell well and what isn’t. And I started really getting into that analyzing and seeing what was selling, I would create more artwork in that vein. And eventually over time I think within that six month period I was up to about 4000 pounds a month on Thortful with some of my

Nikki

14:37
That’s quite a big jump from from six.

Charly

14:41
Yeah, and it’s crazy because I if I’d given up. It’s like that analogy with the guy who’s just kind of hacking away and gives up just before he reaches the gold. And there are so many times where I’ve I’ve wanted to give up and then I’ve just reminded myself of that moment and just thought keep going has something here. And if there isn’t money, there’s a lesson to be learned. And that’s another great thing that I’ve learned in my business is, it’s not always about how much money I’m making. It’s about what I’m learning and what I’m able to give back to my community. And I think it was in 2019, things were going really well. I was actually living in KL at the time. And I remember I had this big client that was making up quite a big chunk of my money, my income, the client went bankrupt, and I lost that client. And I remember just sitting there thinking, what am I going to do, I had put so many of my eggs in one basket with this client. And I was sat there with my partner at the time, we were sat in KL and an air b&b. And he just said to me, he’s like, look like he was the owner of a very big digital painting academy called Paintball. And he was doing really well selling courses is that look, Charly, I think you you, you’re doing great with your illustration, I think you’d be a great teacher, I think you should just go for it. Maybe you could diversify your income. And at the time, I had built a little bit of an audience, it wasn’t that big, and I just said, You know what, I’m just gonna go for it.

Nikki

16:23
Had you thought about teaching before that?

Charly

16:25
I had moments. And I had a few tutorials on YouTube, but they were very, very small. I never thought of myself as a teacher. And I never thought that I could create a course for Skillshare, they had just released their Skillshare I think it was their monthly challenge where they will help you through creating your first course. So I was in KL at my Airbnb. And like we were talking about some tones, you have to sit in a closet to get good audio, I remember just kind of surrounding myself with these cushions in this tiny, tiny apartment. And I had this cheap lapel mic, I downloaded the cheapest screen recording app I could find on my laptop. And I just started to record my course Fun with Faces. And at the time, I had no idea what I was doing. I just knew that I really had a passion for helping others. And I suppose that kind of pulled me through. But my audio was pretty bad. My experience was next to nothing. And I remember just sitting there just thinking, I have no idea what I’m doing, but I’m just gonna go for it. I recorded that all in three weeks. And I said to my partner, if I just get 100 students, I’m going to be so happy. And I think within that first month, it reached 2000 students.

Nikki

17:52
Oh my goodness.

Charly

17:54
It’s now sitting at 44,000 students on scale. Wow, my first ever class.

Nikki

18:00
That’s amazing.

Laura

18:01
It’s amazing. And I’ve taken that class, Charly, it’s great class.

Charly

18:04
Oh wow. Thank you. Thank you. And I I’m so I’m just so amazed at the response that that course got. And I think it was because the passion was there. And we put so much pressure on ourselves to have the best studio lights, the best audio, the best everything in order to start. And I’m so grateful that I didn’t let all of those other things stop me from putting that out there, because now that was the catalyst for me creating all my other courses on Skillshare. And what really propelled me into the world of teaching, which I absolutely love now. And all of these little things along the way, are just little stepping stones towards those bigger things. And a lot of people probably look at me on social media, or just anyone who they look up to and admire as a professional illustrator, they think they’ve always had it figured out. And I love what you guys are doing putting these stories out there to show that everyone comes from humble beginnings. And it’s what you take from those little moments and those mistakes and those failures and those times where you want to give up and you just keep going and it’s what you take from those moments. And I think it’s very easy for people to try and mirror and try and do exactly what I’m doing now. But I like to kind of compare it to leveling up. Like I’ve I’ve gone from the bottom and every time I reach a next step I just level up level up and just keep seeing everything as a level up rather than seeing what everyone’s doing and thinking you have to do it or because I I’m focusing on a lot of areas now. I have art licensing, teaching, coaching programs, just like so many things. And people are looking at that thinking, I can’t do all that. So I’ll do nothing. And actually, it’s if you look at that and say, okay, but Charly’s there now, after seven years of a lot of failures, I’m just going to start here and I’m just going to keep going and add and add and add. And I really want to drill that into people that feel scared about starting because we all come from humble beginnings.

Nikki

20:26
That’s exactly why we tell these stories. That’s why we do these interviews and, and just help everybody see that, you know, nobody starts out of the gate, and a certain level of success, you work exactly step to get there.

Laura

20:41
Everybody starts with zero followers, you know, and they work their way towards something else. Now, you’ve mentioned earlier about print on demand. And I assume Society6 is one of those platforms that you joined, perhaps early on? I’m not I’m not sure in that, what year that was. But I think you have done really well on that platform as well. In fact, don’t you have a course all about that on Skillshare?

Charly

21:06
Yeah, I did. I had, I think I got an email from from Skillshare. themselves, they asked me to do a collaboration with Society6. So they were collaborating together, and asked me to be one of the three teachers to teach on the topic, which was such a great opportunity, because I am so passionate about the process of creating for print on demand. And I was so excited to share everything that I knew about that. And I have had a lot of success on Society6, but I think that is due to the success that I had with my greeting cards as well. And just because if you find yourself pivoting, or going into a different area, there are so many things that you can bring from that original area that you’re focused on, and bring it over into different areas. So Society6 was a lot different in terms of, there’s more patterns, it’s more surface designs, and more prints and greeting cards were very, very different. But I was still able to have my analytical mind and analyze exactly what was selling and what wasn’t. And once I kind of worked out that process, I just couldn’t wait to share that with other people. Because I think that’s overlooked a lot. Or maybe we could kind of take it to heart if we’re not selling. Whereas I just say if I’m not selling something, I’m like, Okay, there’s something wrong here, I just need to change things up. So it’s just about how you approach it. And I think that’s really important.

Nikki

22:43
I’d like to ask about licensing, greeting cards, Society6, Skillshare, you got your hands in a lot of different pots. Were you strategic about how you got started with them all? Were you just kind of like, let me try this. Let me try this, or were you let me kind of perfect this one and then add the next How did you? How did you make that piece of the puzzle all fit together?

Charly

23:14
I definitely focused on one to two areas at the beginning, I’m really, really honed in my skills there. Because once like I said, once you learn everything that goes into that, it becomes so much easier to then move into a different area and just almost mirror what you’ve already done and what you’ve already learned. I see a lot of my followers and just a lot of people that I follow make that mistake where they think that they have to do everything, and they spread themselves too thin. And they then don’t have the capacity or the bandwidth to learn exactly what goes into making each area successful. So I think if you have success with surface design, really hone in your skills with that and become an expert in that field. And you don’t always have to teach. And I think this is another common misconception of people like oh, well, there’s no money in illustration unless you become a teacher. And I, I became very successful as an artist before I became a teacher. But it was also I found myself I had the confidence and the expertise to become the teacher because I really did hone in my craft. And you don’t have to know everything. But I think it’s really good to have that authority at least online. So that was a really good thing that I had built on Instagram over the years as not an expert but as someone who was willing to be vulnerable and share my mistakes and really walk people through the process of what I was doing as an artist and I was willing to bring people into my world. And through that I was able to build my audience which was a really A great thing for me then to launch my classes too, later on. But just being someone who shares and being a voice in the community is enough, you don’t have to be a teacher. Because there are so many different products that you can build. It doesn’t have to be a course, there’s digital products, there are templates, so many things that you can sell. But having an audience is really important, if you want to kind of go into that area as well.

Laura

25:29
Well, let’s talk a little bit about building an audience. Because I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that people starting out, have, they might see a lot of people with big audiences like yourself and go, Oh, my gosh, I have, you know, 30 followers.

Nikki

25:45
I’ll never get there.

Laura

25:47
And I post every day and I, you know, you know, I share my process. And I do this, like, how am I not gaining traction? Like, what? Yeah, give us give us an idea of how your journey kind of went with that a little more on how you grew from something small to something large. Part of it, you mentioned was vulnerability.

Charly

26:07
Yeah, vulnerability is a really important one. I think being able to humanize yourself and show the imperfections and that you’re not perfect, and that we, we all have our struggles, and it’s how we deal with those. But I think it’s been through a lot of different tactics with social media, the biggest strategy for me was definitely drawing challenges. I created my first drawing challenge back in 2019, off the back of my first family faces class. And that was actually a passion project that I put together because I was feeling a little bit burned out and uninspired and decided to give myself some restrictions when it came to what to draw. So I would just give myself three words, and then I would create an illustration with those three words. So I’d have to incorporate them somewhere on that portrait. And after a while, I was getting quite good feedback on my portraits. And I thought, You know what, I think I should just post these for more people to see. And I just shared that challenge. And that was fun with faces. And that just blew up. And people seem to really loved that. And I realized that if I give myself a challenge, or something that’s working for me, I just can’t wait to share it. I’m a bit of an oversharer. And my followers just really, really resonated with that, because I think we all go through those moments where we’re so uninspired and just giving them a little bit of a prompt, but still allowing them to be creative, and 1000s of people would use these plants, but not one illustration would be the same. And I absolutely loved that. And that was just the start of these drawing challenges that I would then release kind of every quarter, or maybe, for my birthday, and just special occasions when I could just create these challenges. And people really got on board with those. And I saw my follower count really grow from that, because it went from me just posting my illustrations to actually feeling like I had some form of community. And that was when I started leaning more into the community side of things on Instagram, and really connecting with my audience and finding out what they were struggling with and what I could do to help them. And I suppose that kind of goes with the teaching aspect as well, of just seeing what they’re struggling with and just wanting to create classes where I can help them.

Laura

28:46
Yeah, and when it comes from that authentic place, I think that’s where people really connect with you when they see that you really are there to service and to help them any way that you can. That that that is a natural audience grower, right?

Charly

29:03
Definitely. And challenges have really big at the moment and evolve a lot of challenges out there. But I think if you can just find a unique spin on your challenges is which is what I kind of did because there were already challenges out there. The only difference was there weren’t any on portraits at the time. And I also picked three words instead of one word. So seeing what’s already working and just trying to put your heads on changing it up enough that it becomes something unique to you. People are gonna see that and see that with fresh eyes and that will definitely get more traction as well. And I now have my challenge faith Tober which is a month long challenge every October, which is so much fun. Absolutely love it. And that’s where I send out my I for weeks of prompts to my audience as well, so they can kind of get prepared for the month of October, where we draw portraits. And yeah, it’s just a lot of fun.

Nikki

30:10
Give us a little example of what’s involved in the challenge.

Charly

30:14
So if anyone is looking for a fun join challenge, it is starting on the first of October. And every day, you get three different words. So for example, you could get freckles, sunglasses, and long hair. And you have to incorporate that into any portrait that you want to draw. And it can be in any medium as well. It doesn’t have to be digital. And then you just use the hashtag, face Tober and tag me as well. And I’ll do my best to reshare as many as I can. And what’s incredible about this is it’s so much bigger than me. And I think that’s really important as well is to not focus on what these challenges or what grown an audience can do for you. But what this can do for your community. Because even if I step out for whatever reason, maybe I’m sick, or I can’t host it, I have so many amazing people in the challenge who are commenting wonderful things, and inspiring and supporting each other. It is just an incredible community full of lovely, lovely artists. And everyone is looking for ways to level up their portraits in some way. So maybe they want to focus on a different color palette that month, or maybe a different medium. So it’s a perfect way to feel inspired, and also have that community kind of cheering you on along the way as well. And

Laura

31:41
You know, we’re not sure exactly when this episode is coming out, Charly, but we definitely want people to be able to join in, if not this year, next year on Facetober. And they can get all of those prompts from you by joining your email list. Is that right?

Charly

31:56
Yeah, exactly. So if you sign up to my newsletter, I can send out those prompts. I normally do a week, maybe two weeks before October 1. And I host this every year. So if you can’t make it this year, I will have one next year. And I also have Fun with Faces challenges that I do, which is a week long challenge that you can also take part in, which I do all year long. So that can be something to kind of get your creative juices flowing.

Laura

32:25
Perfect. Okay, so I know that you are a top teacher on Skillshare. Charly, I think you have what, eight or nine classes out there.

Charly

32:32
Yeah, I’ve got about eight classes now on Skillshare.

Laura

32:35
Yeah, that’s incredible. And I think we talked about not having all of your eggs in one basket, right. And so you’ve been really great at diversifying your income because you’re doing print on demand, you’ve got Skillshare, you’ve got all these different forms of income. And a lot of that is passive income, which is great. But one of the things I know you’ve done recently is actually launch your own course on your own platform. So can you tell us a little bit about how that came to be?

Charly

33:04
Yeah, so my business partner Fabe. We partnered together last year to start creating some workshops and courses outside of Skillshare. And again, like you said, diversity in your income is really important. And also I just really wanted to create a more in depth course that had more of a community built around it, because in case you haven’t noticed, I love community building. And I decided to do it on my own platform with the help of my business partner Fabe. And we put together Out of This World Portrait, so I created the course. And he helped me create the sales page and we launched that back in February. And that’s called Out of This World portraits, and it’s a four and a half, I think even five hour in-depth course all about how to create dreamy portraits in Procreate. I have so so many of my Procreate tips hidden in that course. And I’m really, really excited about it because I’ve seen so many incredible results for my students, just seeing how they’ve been able to level up not only with their anatomy with drawing portraits, but also their color picking as well. I have a whole module all about colors. And that was just such an amazing just an amazing experience to create something so in depth and also to see the results from my students because that is what I love why I love teaching so much is getting those results and really getting that feedback. And get we launched that in February. And we we have over 320 students now in the course which I’m so excited about.

Nikki

34:56
Excellent.

Charly

34:57
The community is buzzing and it’s just Such a great place to share your work, get feedback and level up. And yeah, I’m really, really proud of that I’m really excited for this next chapter of teaching, because that has opened up so many doors for me as well in terms of just gaining that confidence in knowing that I can get results for my students.

Laura

35:25
Yeah, and the course is all about portraits in Procreate, but you can take all those tips and tricks that you learn and apply them to other types of art as well, which is really cool.

Charly

35:35
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I also just teach you so many tricks in Procreate, because my workflow over I think 2016, when I got my iPad has really been dialed in now. And I absolutely love the app. And I love sharing all these kinds of secret tips with with my students, and I’m constantly adding to the course as well, I’ve actually just uploaded two lessons on how to draw lips as well, because I saw my students were struggling with that. So I really love to listen to my students and see where they struggle, what they’re struggling with, and try and help them. And now I am working on a coaching program to help more with the business side of things as well with my business partner Fabe.

Laura

36:28
Well, you talked about that early on that when you had your own education, it was something that you didn’t really learn, like they don’t necessarily teach that in art schools and different things, you might learn some of the technical aspects of illustration, for example, but then you don’t learn, now what now what do I do? How do I actually turn this into a business that I can sustain myself with?

Charly

36:49
Exactly. It’s, it’s crazy to think back. When I left university, I remember just thinking, I have no idea how to make money with my art. But because I’ve gone through those struggles, I definitely now know how to help other people through those same struggles. And I just want to be that voice of support. Because I see a lot of people who say that they haven’t had that support from their parents, or maybe they haven’t had that support from their family members where they said, When are you going to get a real job. And luckily, I always had the support from my mum. And I know how much that support has given me in confidence over the years. And it’s almost like I want to be that person for someone else. And I definitely see that the business side of illustration. And the resources out there is definitely lacking. And I kind of want to fill that gap. Because there is so many things that you can do with your art to make money, you just need to have a strategy and a little bit of discipline and some support, which is what I’m going to be doing with my business partner faith. So faith has really helped me with the business side of things. So the marketing, he’s amazing at marketing and audience building. And we…

Nikki

38:14
I need a Fabe.

Charly

38:16
Yeah, everyone needs a Fabe. Well, if you sign up to a coaching program, you will get a Fabe.

Nikki

38:24
Well tell us more about your coaching program.

Charly

38:27
So we’re working on that right now. And I’m going to be focusing a lot on the art side, because the business side isn’t enough if you don’t have the skill with your art. So it goes hand in hand, I think if you can really hone in your skills as an artist and also work on the business side. That is the killer combination. And Fabe is really great at the marketing side of things. He is great at creating funnels and launching a newsletter, creating lead magnets to get people into your newsletter. And it’s really important to build an audience if you’re looking at selling any products. And even if you’re not looking at selling your own product, it’s still important to have an audience because of the opportunities from potential licenses and clients as well. So for example, I think two years ago, I got approached by a company from the US and they wanted me to design a mug for them. And they offered me quite good money. But they also offered me even more money because of my audience because they wanted me to promote them on my Instagram. So I almost became a mini influencer. And it made me realize like wow, I have not only the skill to create something for this client, but I also have something else that they want. And I was able to monetize my following that way as well. And after that moment, I realized just how important it is to have an audience not just for selling products but also how appealing it is. for clients to see, wow, you could be promoting my products in front of a very engaged audience. So that is the importance of having an audience. So me and Faber are currently putting together a coaching program called the audience accelerator, which I’m really excited about. And it is all about that. So it’s all about creating lead magnets, creating value for your audience, and showing up for your audience in a way that feels authentic to you. And that’s something that I’ve learned over the years that I can’t wait to share with my students. And it we’re in the early stages of putting that together. But we’re hoping to kind of launch it in the next two to three months. And we’re just going to get a handful of really dedicated students and take them through everything that I’ve kind of gone through myself on this journey. And we’re looking forward to getting some results.

Nikki

40:51
That’s fantastic. Can’t wait to see that and share it with our listeners.

Laura

40:55
Yeah, that’s amazing. And again, it is so intimidating. I think, Charly, like even you talking about lead magnets, you know, when you’re just getting started out, you’re like, oh, my gosh, email, what do I write? What do I tell? What would people even be interested in hearing from me? And you know, how do I create a funnel like these words sound? kind of complicated, right?

Charly

41:18
Yeah, these words, and for anyone listening and hearing lead magnet, and they’re saying, I don’t know what a lead magnet is, don’t worry, I only learned what a lead magnet was a couple of years ago. But so for anyone who doesn’t know what a lead magnet is, it’s just something that you package together and give away for free to your audience in exchange for an email. So if you think about Instagram, you don’t own that audience. Instagram could disappear overnight, and you could lose your whole following, which is terrifying. I have had sleepless nights thinking about this. And when you start to realize that and put more effort into building up an audience on different platforms, again, not putting all of your eggs in one basket, it takes the pressure off. And I started seeing the importance of building my email list. Because my people on my email list are really engaged, they’re dedicated. And they have signed up because they want to hear more from me. And I also see this as an opportunity for me to share behind the scenes and a more intimate way with my following. And I create these lead magnets that I know is going to provide value in some way. So again, really trying to figure out what your audience is passionate about what your audience is struggling with, and trying to fill that gap with some form of template or lead magnet, something that you can give to your audience in exchange for their email. And they can opt out at any point. But hopefully, you can then start to send out value in your emails as well. So people want to stay on and hear more from you. So when you do have a product that you want to sell, then it’s going to be a lot easier to engage with those people on your email list rather than promoting it to your Instagram. Because a lot of people stay on their platform on Instagram, they don’t necessarily come off it to buy, it’s not really a place for people to shop. So having products sent directly to your audiences, email is just a lot better, it converts a lot better.

Nikki

43:29
As an example for our listeners. If you’ve listened to our tips episodes, and have gone on onto our website, to download the PDF that we put together for our tips episodes. That’s a lead magnet.

Laura

43:45
Yeah, that’s an example of a lead magnet. So Charly, what is an example of one that you’ve produced for your audience.

Nikki

43:50
One of your best performing ones, or one you like the best.

Charly

43:58
So I found that that my face Tober and firmer faces challenge did very well. But also my color palette, as well my color palette PDF, so that is 20 of my most popular color palettes al with the hex codes so and also the color swatches so people can really easily download and import those into their library on Procreate. And because I’m really big on color, I’m talking I talk about it all the time, that just seemed like a very natural thing for me to give to my audience because my audience felt very warmed up at that point. And that went down really well.

Laura

44:36
And that’s something that you do really well, Charly because you do have I don’t know it’s feels like a modern fresh color palette in your in your digital art that you create so I can see where that’s a perfect lead magnet to offer people.

Charly

44:50
Thank you and Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of people say Oh, I don’t have any value or anything to give to my audience. But if you just look at your work and Just say what you’re known for, or what is something that you tend to gravitate towards, you can easily just package something up, it’s a mini freebie, it doesn’t have to be crazy because it is free, that the pressures off a little bit there, you just need to give some form of incentive for your audience to at least give their email over to you. And I’m actually currently working on my next lead magnet now. And that is going to be part of my Facetober challenge where I give away five free stamp brushes for people to have fun with during the month long challenge as well, which I’m really excited to kind of see what other people are using those for.

Nikki

45:43
Nice, Laura, are you going to sign up for Facetober? Or you probably already have.

Laura

45:49
Yeah, I think Well, I think I’m already on your what does it call juicy? What’s the name of your email?

Charly

45:54
Oh yeah, Juicy Finds.

Laura

45:56
Juicy Finds, I’m on that for sure. So, but if there’s another list that I need to join to get on Facetober, I will as well.

Charly

46:04
Yeah, I think I think I should I, I’ve have sent out the prompts already. So if you haven’t received them, I’m I’m gonna be uploading a few more. I’m going to be sending out a few more newsletters this week as well.

Nikki

46:17
I think I’m gonna give it a try. because I draw a lot of nude women that have no faces.

Charly

46:24
Oh, so then this is perfect.

Nikki

46:27
A good challenge for me would be to do faces. All right, I’m committing.

Charly

46:32
Nikki, I’m going to be I’m going to be looking out for your portraits.

Nikki

46:36
Hold me to it.

Charly

46:37
I’m holding you to it. Oh, I can’t wait to see those.

Nikki

46:42
Yeah.

Laura

46:45
Okay, so Charly, what is one piece of advice that you wish that you had known when you got started?

Charly

46:53
I would say diversify your income. That has saved me in so many moments and points of my career is to not put all my eggs in one basket. And I say this because I have done that in the past and had moments where I thought, I’m going to have to quit, I’m going to have to give up, I might have to move back to the UK, I had a moment when I was in Chiang Mai, Thailand, where my money had completely dried up. And I read I thought I would have to move back to the UK. And then I got a good check in the post from one of my licenses that just saved me and gave me that confidence to keep going again. And that moment, I realized that if I hadn’t diversified my income and focused on a few different areas, I would have been in a lot more trouble. And when I say diversify, they, I would say focus on two to three areas. And you can focus on maybe one to two areas in terms of your styles. So if you’re working with surface design, but then look at ways that you can diversify your income within that area. So there are so many different ways that you can make money from your patterns. So you can sell them as digital downloads, you can sell them as on print on demand licensed them out, maybe you could make a lead magnet from them, sell them as wallpapers, there’s so many things that you can do to diversify your income in one area. So you don’t have to do seven different areas, and then diversify them or start small and really honing in on that.

Nikki

48:38
That’s great advice. And along with that, with all the diverse things that you do. How do you juggle them all? And not drop balls all over the place? How do you get all the different projects done?

Charly

48:52
With Fabe? Because I have a Fabe.

Nikki

48:55
I need a fame!

Charly

48:57
He’s my secret weapon. No, I It’s been a process to learn how to let go of things in my business and to outsource areas that might not be my zone of genius has been difficult to relinquish control in my business. Because when you work on something for as long as I have, it’s very hard because it’s your baby and you have a vision.

Nikki

49:23
Don’t I know it.

Charly

49:24
And it can be sometimes quite hard to… Yeah, I’m sure you guys can agree and it can be really hard to give that over to someone else but once you do and you have faith in that other person. So for example, I worked with a graphic designer to help me with my brush pack this this year because I just knew that I couldn’t do it or I’d recently had a surgery for endometriosis and I was bed bound for at least three weeks. I was still doing work from my laptop in bed but this also made me realize the importance of creating passive income within your business. And luckily, I was at a stage where I was still able to make money through my courses, through art licensing while I was lying in bed not able to work. And I remember just thinking, I want to share this with other people, because I know that a lot of people in the same situations where they might not be able to work, and just to have that peace of mind that they’re still making income while they sleep, or while there may be ill, or some family emergency. So when I was working from from my bed, I remember saying to fail, but I was like, I cannot do everything within this brush pack, my zone of genius is to create the product, but I can’t also design it. So I got a graphic designer, and I work very closely with him to bring my vision to life through the slides and through how I was going to market it. And that was a really great experience, because it made me realize that with that communication and working closely with someone else, you are able to share that vision and someone can actually bring that to life. So outsourcing has been a game changer for me and my business, I outsource all my taxes. That’s not my zone of genius. And I also outsource other other things that might take up my time. So for example, I hire a cleaner to come in every other week, every two weeks, because I know that that time spent cleaning could be better spent on my business. So it’s about trying to figure out where your time is best spent. And it can be really hard to shift your mindset over that because a lot of people say, Oh, well, I’m going to save money, and I’m going to clean myself. But if I look at how much I’m paying, and how much I’m earning per hour, it’s a no brainer. So I outsource that, as well. And that has freed up a lot more time. And I think it’s just about being disciplined. But also finding time for yourself. I have definitely run the risk of burnout over the years because I want to do it all. And I want to do it to the highest standards. And I’m a bit of a perfectionist. But letting go of those things and also seeing self care as a form of productivity as well, has been great. So I really try and find a little bit more balance in my days now where maybe I’ll go for like a meditation and a walk in the morning, soak up some sun, just do something for me. And it could be a tiny thing that just takes 1015 minutes. But knowing that I did something for myself that day, really helps me keep going in those periods where it’s quite stressful in my business. But also doing stuff that I love, it doesn’t always feel like work if I’m enjoying it. And I think I’ve always had a passion for helping others. I never really knew what that was going to look like it’s just fallen into this. But that is my why. And I’m just reminded of my way of helping others and inspiring and showing that you can just be a normal person, a normal person starting from humble beginnings. And you can still make it if you have the passion. And that’s what I’m here to help people with.

Laura

53:26
And having that ability to work through the early phases that can be difficult when, you know, obstacles come up and it’s easy to give up at that stage. But having that support is really huge. And I love what you were saying about self care and just taking 10 or 15 minutes because I have a day job in the finance world. And I have my art that I do at night weekends, things like that. And it’s been really challenging lately, because my day job has been so kind of all encompassing.

Nikki

53:56
How many hours did you sleep last night, Laura?

Laura

53:59
Yeah, yeah, we’re not going to talk about that.

Charly

54:01
Oh Laura, tell us.

Laura

54:04
Like three but anyway, what I want to do, and I’m working on that, but what I what I want to do is make sure that I don’t like lose track of that. And I’m even thinking of this is I’m not going to say her name because she’s going to wake up but the ALEXA that I have in my house, like telling her like, set a reminder for this time to go take a 10 minute walk or like set a reminder for this time to do this.

Nikki

54:31
My ring does that. And I ignore it every time.

Laura

54:35
It talks to you? Your ring talks to you?

Nikki

54:37
Well, it doesn’t. It doesn’t talk to me. But it…

Laura

54:40
That would be kind of creepy.

Nikki

54:41
It flashes a notification.

Laura

54:46
It flashes a notification and tells you to go do things and you just ignore it?

Nikki

54:48
Yeah. Isn’t it time to stretch?

Laura

54:51
Yeah, and you’re like, No, I’m just gonna sit here. No, but those things are so important, Charly, I think too, because that burnout It is real.

Charly

55:00
It is.

Laura

55:01
You know, and that can really, I couldn’t really stop you from reaching your goals.

Charly

55:06
And I think we’ve, we’ve all run the risk of, of burnout, because there’s so much pressure online, you see, people probably see me and think, wow, she’s doing it all, and I’ve now obviously, I’ve got Fabe, who’s my business partner helping me out. And I have other people that I’m outsourcing my projects to. And people don’t see the behind the scenes. So they just see this person, they think, wow, she’s Wonder Woman, like, I feel bad that I can’t even do half half the amount she’s doing. And so I’m very transparent with kind of what I’m doing or what I’m struggling with. And that is kind of what my newsletter is all about is the the highs and lows, so people can see that it’s not all perfect. And I completely agree, Laura, there are so many times where I’ve set reminders of like self care, come on, Charly, like you really need to do that. Now. I’m like, oh, yeah, later later, because in the moment you think, oh, I’m getting some really good work done. But you don’t realize that that is chipping away at the kind of the the quality of your work in the future.

Nikki

56:13
Especially when we’re doing creative work that we love so much. Like, you know, you get to draw all day, well, it’s not all day. But there’s lots of other things we have to do. But our our work is so fun for us that we want to keep going. And you know, even though it is fun, you still need a break.

Laura

56:33
Yeah, everyone needs a break. Yeah,

Charly

56:35
I’ve I’ve started now playing regular badminton every every week. And I’ve also included in Muay Thai, because I really just wanted to start looking at other hobbies that didn’t actually require drawing. Because it’s really hard when you love drawing so much. And then it becomes your full time job and is all about your business. It’s very hard to separate the two. And I remember, I used to draw to unwind, and then I would find myself drawing all day, and then drawing to unwind, I was like, Okay, this isn’t working, I need to switch things up. So that was when I started realizing well, I need more hobbies, I need something that is completely different, that will just take me out of that world completely. And when you get burned out or don’t want to draw, it’s really hard then to show up in your business to draw. So I think it’s important to step out, step away, do something completely different, and then come back. And I find that those mini breaks are just so vital for my mental health. And that is something that I love to talk about on my Instagram and newsletter as well is mental health, because I think a lot of people struggle with it. But a lot of people don’t really talk openly about it, or about how they get out of it. And I love when I find myself coming out of maybe a burnout and I feel recharged and energized. And like I said before, there’s always a lesson to be learned in those darker times or those burnouts. And as soon as I come out of it, I’m like, Oh, I’ve learned a lesson, I can’t wait to share it with my audience. And so nothing is ever wasted. So if you ever do feel like you’re going through one of those moments where you’re struggling, things are really tough. Just remind yourself that everyone goes through it, and try and look at the way that you were able to get out of it. And then share it with your audience to hopefully help someone else out of a similar situation. And when you’re in those darker times, that will give you motivation and inspiration to keep going. And that has been a big driving force behind all the struggles that I’ve gone through over the last few years. Because I know that this is so much bigger than me, you know,

Nikki

59:07
And sharing all that makes you so much more relatable. So it’s great that you share the highs and the lows.

Laura

59:16
Yeah, so many people focus on this picture perfect world of like only showing the very best, when in reality, nobody lives that way.

Charly

59:26
No, exactly.

Laura

59:29
All right. So Charly, where can our listeners connect with you online?

Charly

59:33
They can find me on Instagram @charlyclements. And also I would love to have you on my newsletter. If you’d like to sign up for that. I have a link in my bio there. And I send out an email every month called Juicy Finds which I put together, it’s five kind of different tips or five things that I found that month that will hopefully get you inspired, so it could be creative of the month my favorite apps, must listen to podcasts. Hint, hint. I’ve actually, I’ve actually put you in one of my emails before.

Nikki

1:00:09
Thank you so much.

Charly

1:00:11
One of the, one of the earlier ones, must must listen to podcasts because I think it’s great what you guys are doing as well sharing other people’s stories. And yeah, I just love listening to it.

Nikki

1:00:23
Thank you.

Charly

1:00:24
So yeah, you can find me on Instagram, as well as my newsletter, if you want to get a little bit more of a glimpse into the behind the scenes of what it’s like to run a creative business on the road. My website is charlyclements.com as well, and you can find everything linked on my Instagram. And if you want to check out my portrait class as well, I’d love to have you as a student. So if you’re looking to level up your illustrations, or just want to learn a new skill with me, then I would love to have you in the class.

Nikki

1:00:57
And we will share all of those links on our show notes. And I just have one last question for you that I’ve been dying to ask since I heard that you are living in Thailand and I love Thai food. Tell me about the food really quickly. What’s your favorite thing to eat there?

Charly

1:01:15
Khao Soi.

Nikki

1:01:16
Oooh, what is that?

Charly

1:01:16
So Khao Soi it’s a yellow creamy coconut soup, coconut curry, it’s a mix between a soup and a curry. And it’s always topped with crispy noodles and is only normally found in the North of Thailand, Chiang Mai, which is where I’m currently based. And that is one of my favorites. But I always find that if I leave the country for over a month and come back, I struggle because it definitely has a bit of spice. It has a kick to it. And the more you have it, the spicier it gets it all kind of goes to the bottom. So but yeah, it’s one of my favorites. I can’t recommend it enough.

Laura

1:01:57
Oh, I’m hungry now. I absolutely love Thai food.

Charly

1:02:01
Oh, me too. It’s quite it’s quite late here but I’m just thinking spicy curry at quarter past nine at night. I’m not sure.

Nikki

1:02:09
Maybe not the best for your sleep.

Charly

1:02:11
Maybe not

Nikki

1:02:12
Laura, what do you think? Next Startist Society planning retreat in Thailand?

Laura

1:02:18
Yeah, let’s go to Chiang Mai, we’ll hang out with Charly.

Charly

1:02:21
That would be amazing, we could cook coconut curries.

Laura

1:02:27

Charly

, thank you so much for being on the show today and sharing your journey with us ,sharing all about developing online communities, about self care. All these things are so important and we just really appreciate you taking the time to share with us today.

Charly

1:02:43
Thank you so much for having me.

Nikki

1:02:46
It’s been amazing getting to hear your story and getting to know you a little bit and I just I can’t wait to start drawing faces.

Charly

1:02:55
I can’t wait to see these naked illustrations of yours

Nikki

1:03:00
To learn more about Charly and read today’s show notes go to startistsociety.com/charlyclements.

Laura

1:03:08
If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, we’d love for you to leave us a five star rating and review. reviews help us reach more Startists like you and keep us inspired to create new episodes. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.