88 – Will AI Art Replace Artists?

Laura

0:00
AI art is the new buzzword. Weeks ago, everybody and their dog joined the Lensa AI bandwagon to create their own avatars. I mean, who doesn’t want to see themselves as a warrior elf princess?

Nikki

0:13
Me?

Laura

0:15
I’m pretty sure that company made a billion dollars that week Nikki.

Nikki

0:18
Yeah, I’m sure they did. There’s a serious thought though, that artificial intelligence may become the new normal. It’s been used for everything from chat bots to creation of artwork, and it has the ability to composite hundreds of thousands of images into seemingly new pieces of art in less than 60 seconds.

Laura

0:37
So what does this mean for the art world? Should we be scared? Is our intellectual property being stolen? Will art directors no longer want to pay artists for their commercial work? Will galleries be filled with AI art? And will human artists become obsolete? Is there a way for us to use AI art to our advantage? We’re going to chat about all of this and more in today’s episode. So let’s dive in.

Hi, this is Laura Lee Griffin.

Nikki

1:10
And this is Nikki May with the Startist Society, inspiring you to stop getting in your own way and start building an art biz and life that you love.

Laura

1:19
We are artists who believe strongly in the power of community, accountability, following your intuition, taking small actionable steps and breaking down the barriers of fear and procrastination that keep you stuck.

Nikki

1:32
Follow along with us on our creative business journey as we encourage you on yours.

Laura

1:40
Okay, Nikki, we have a lot to talk about on this topic today. If you’re listening to this podcast and have no idea what AI art is, or how these platforms generally work…

Nikki

1:51
Then you’ve been living under a rock.

Laura

1:53
Well, yeah, it’s a pretty big topic of conversation these days. But I’m sure not everyone has tested out the technology for themselves, aside from perhaps creating a set of those cool avatars through Lensa. So how do these AI engines work? You basically provide a robot on the internet with a string of words or descriptions that you want it to use to compile an image, it then generates a one of a kind image or set of images utilizing hundreds of thousands of points of reference in less than 60 seconds.

Nikki

2:29
Man, if I can draw that fast.

Laura

2:31
Aw, right. It fills in certain gaps with artificial intelligence to create the final images. And then you can refine those images further, you can upscale them. And they can even be used potentially for printable pieces of art, b ut I know they do generally have a size limitation. Now the engines that I’m aware of generally create raster or pixel based images. And it takes an incredible amount of computing power. So generally, there are subscription fees that are charged for the services. And one of the more popular ones is called Midjourney where you can create around, I think it’s 200 images for $10 a month at quick speeds.

Nikki

3:13
Wow.

Laura

3:14
That’s still pretty cheap, though, isn’t it?

Nikki

3:16
It is, but when you think about how many people are paying to use it…

Laura

3:21
Exactly. So, I personally joined majority around five months ago to see what all this fuss was about. And the first time that you create something, you’re kind of amazed at what gets produced in such a short amount of time. And the fact that it doesn’t really take any artistic skill set to do it. It’s just your imagination and a few typed words. And it’s super fun. And it’s fairly addictive, but it’s not predictable or consistent at this stage. I admit that I created a whole series of steampunk animals that were pretty darn cool.

Nikki

3:53
They were pretty darn cool.

Laura

3:55
Yeah, I’ll share a few of those in the show notes. And I thought they would be really great NFT’s to sell before the whole crypto market crashed. But as fun and addictive as AI art is there is a darker side to consider. Many artists are concerned, will AI make me obsolete? If anyone can mimic my style in under one minute for a painting that takes me a month to complete? How do you compete with that? And if AI is truly compositing existing images covered by intellectual property rights, is it stealing my artwork? In general, I personally feel AI isn’t smart enough yet to be truly original. It’s hard to narrow down and get the exact style or image that you want with a prompt of words. It’s more of a happy accident scenario.

Nikki

4:42
Until you sometimes get hands with six or eight fingers or your glasses are stuck halfway through your face.

Laura

4:50
And that has happened. I’ve done some portrait ones where like there’s like a line across the face where the glasses are. So it definitely isn’t smart enough yet.

Nikki

4:58
Yet.

Laura

4:59
I purposefully tried to use my own and your name, Nikki, to see if it would result in something that looked like our art. Like saying in the style of Nikki May or in the style of Laura Lee Griffin, and it didn’t even come close. I mean, we didn’t have enough points of data. But if you did, like, the style of Van Gogh, you get something a little bit closer to that style, because there’s a million points of reference to his work.

Nikki

5:23
Well, we’re just not famous enough yet, Laura. But we’ll know we’ve arrived when the AI world is copying our images.

Laura

5:31
Well, I know this is going to change over time, and AI gets smarter and certain engines like Stable Diffusion, give people the ability to upload a select number of photos, and create AI images in one lesser known artist’s specific style. So, to me, that’s where things start getting really dicey. And I know a lot of our listeners are also surface pattern designers. So I tried to create repeat patterns in Midjourney. It created some interesting patterns, but it couldn’t really create a perfect repeat. And I’m guessing, you know, five years down the road or less, it will be possible. And then why will companies want to license artwork from someone when they can create a pattern for free in a particular style in under 60 seconds? I mean, I think this is the inherent fear, Nikki, that many artists have right now.

Nikki

6:20
Yeah, for sure.

Laura

6:22
Now, I initially brushed off that fear, because generally most AI is compositing hundreds of thousands of images. And who is to say what is original? I mean, don’t we all have influences when we paint traditionally? We start by copying artists that we admire until we develop our own unique styles, which may actually be a composite of dozens of artists that we admire. So the computer is doing the exact same thing that we are, only with a digital instead of a physical hand. But I think the argument here is that it’s using the actual intellectual property of an artist to create those composites. So Nikki, I think artists have three main fears around AI. One, will we be replaced by something that works 1,000% faster than we do? Two, noone’s ever going to want to pay us for our work, because AI is so cheap, or in some cases, even free. And three, our ideas and artwork will get stolen by technology, because it’s using our images to create new ones.

Nikki

7:22
So I definitely agree that those are the main fears that a lot of artists have. And I have some thoughts.

Laura

7:28
Of course you do.

Nikki

7:31
Of course. So first of all, this is all exploding in the last couple of weeks or months. But AI art is not a new thing. I found a great article on artnet, that I’ll link to in the show notes with a timeline of the development of artificial intelligence dating back to 3000. BC.

Laura

7:49
Okay, wait, that’s impossible. Computers didn’t exist in 3000 BC, Nikki?

Nikki

7:54
No, they didn’t. But I didn’t say machine intelligence. There are some precursors to the thought patterns that lead to artificial intelligence that it’s interesting to read about in the article. So I’ll include it in the show notes, but this is not going to be a long history lesson. So I’m just going to point out that artificial intelligence and machine generated art is not a new thing.

Laura

8:19
Okay.

Nikki

8:20
In the 50s, and 60s, ai generated graphics were created using simple algorithms to make patterns from shapes and numbers that were multiplied and translated into visuals. They were not the detailed ones we’re seeing now, they’re, simple squares and different colored shapes arranged in patterns. But the idea is that zeros and ones went in and graphics came out. So that’s kind of the beginning of this sort of d graphics. Then in the 70s, and 80s., AI-generated art was used in CAD, computer aided design, where, you know, people would draw in flat geometric shapes, and then they would be, with some calculations turned into three dimensional buildings. So really, that kind of thing isn’t new at all. The first time that that I’ve read about it being used for what could be considered actual art, in 1973, there’s an artist named Harold Cohen and he developed an algorithm that would allow a computer to mimic freehand drawing and painting, and he came up with images that he hadn’t even imagined from it. And again, we’ll link to that in the show notes. But also the tools that we use to help create imagery on the computer in our in the iPad could also be considered AI. You know, in Illustrator and Photoshop, we’ve been using tools that mimic physical art materials for decades. Well there was another one that was like really the earliest version of creating things that looked like actual paintings and it was called Painter. Do you remember that one?

Laura

9:58
No.

Nikki

9:59
Anyway,

Laura

9:59
I’m younger than you are Nikki.

Nikki

10:01
Yes, you are. And you always will to be. Respect your elders, Laura. Anyway, you know, for decades, we’ve been using tools that help us make drawings and paintings digitally using watercolor brushes and charcoal marks on the computer.

Laura

10:19
Yeah, the entertainment industry has also been using AI for years, for example, all the fight scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies, with like a million people individually fighting in the background was all AI technology.

Nikki

10:32
So in that way, is AI art a bad thing? Or is it just the latest development in technology and tools that help us make what we want to make? I could argue both sides, you know, in many ways, I feel as if the d art that artists are all up in arms about now is just the newest iteration of the argument we had back then whether digital paintings are art.

Laura

10:55
Yeah. And to some extent that conversation still happening, right?

Nikki

10:59
Yeah, this conversation is still happening. But it’s been happening and will continue to as technology and tools change. You know, when photography became cheap and easy and anyone could publish beautiful photographs, there was an argument about whether painting was dead. But we still paint. AI might soon be able to visually mimic an artist’s unique painting style, but it can’t mimic its heart, its feelings, its depth. Yeah. Will it replace artists’ original works? or some maybe. But I would argue that the people who would buy AI-generated art aren’t the ones buying original artwork. They’re the ones buying framed art from Target. True art appreciators and collectors will always want to invest in works made by artists’ hands and support the artists who dedicate their lives to making the work, you know?

Laura

11:50
But let’s not forget Nikki that many surface pattern designers are the ones making a living by having their artwork in places like Target. And that’s still art. And it’s still from the efforts, imagination and hand of an artist. So you may be talking about the difference between what someone might call fine art versus commercial art.

Nikki

12:10
Oh, absolutely. And let me clarify, that’s a different argument from the one I’m putting out here. I absolutely agree that the licensed art on products is at risk here. But in this case, I was specifically talking about hand produced, fine art that to me feels less threatened by AI.

Laura

12:30
Right.

Nikki

12:31
But you know, there’s lots of arguments here and a lot of gray areas.

Laura

12:35
Yeah, I agree 100% with a fine art comment. But I know there are even fine artists that I follow that have large licensing deals, and their paintings are mass-produced inside of Target. So to some degree, many are impacted, even fine artists. But I do believe if you develop a core group of collectors, the people that collect fine art are not the type to buy mass-produced paintings in Target.

Nikki

12:58
Yeah, I mean, we’re basically saying the same thing from different perspectives. And as we know that many of our listeners and even ourselves are surface designers and illustrators seeking those licensing deals, there’s definitely something to fear here from being replaced. Yeah, another legitimate fear is the recent development, or at least the recent public awareness of the tools that are gathering information by analyzing the styles, marks and colors of artists’ images online, and using what it learns to create new images in those styles by companies that are making profit off these images that are based on works by artists who are not being compensated or giving permission for their use. Again, I have conflicting opinions on this as well. At first glance, I was as outraged as any other artist. And my disclaimer with what I’m about to say is that I’m not saying any of this is okay, I’m just putting out some thoughts that I’ve had and things that I’ve read from others. First the “art” and I have the word art in quotes. It’s not directly copied from any one artist, you can definitely see the styles of specific artists that are directly referenced in the images. But for the most part, there are combinations of bits of images from multiple sources, and the algorithms interpolation of the pieces that are missing.

Laura

14:18
Right.

Nikki

14:19
So in one way, how is that hugely different from making collages from pieces of other people’s photographs and art? Or how is that very different from how we learn, like you said, Laura, how we learn by being inspired by and copying other people’s styles on the way to developing our own?

Laura

14:39
Right.

Nikki

14:40
Obviously, it’s different because it’s a technology that was built specifically to do this, but I think there’s definitely some overlap.

Laura

14:47
Yeah, I think the collage concept of that example that you gave is a really good example of this, but I think the bigger concern is when actual intellectual property is being used to composite something else. So It’s not like the computer is only imitating the style, it’s actually taking content from that art to generate it.

Nikki

15:07
Oh, yeah, I mean, do I think it’s okay for humans or machines to directly steal from other artists and use their work without compensating them? Absolutely not. Do I think that AI art will make human artists obsolete? Also, absolutely not. Do I think there’s a lot of gray areas that we still have to figure out? For sure.

Laura

15:28
Well, for kicks, I actually used the chat bot. So this is AI, it’s a chat bot called Open AI. And I asked the chat bot, whether or not human artists would get replaced by AI art.

Nikki

15:41
This should be interesting.

Laura

15:43
Yep. Now this was its response, “It is unlikely that human artists will be completely replaced by AI art in the foreseeable future. While AI technology has advanced to the point where it can create some impressive art, it still lacks the creativity and originality that is a fundamental part of what makes art unique. Additionally, many people value the human touch and personal connection that comes with art created by a person, which is something that AI art cannot provide. As a result, it’s likely that AI art will continue to exist alongside human art rather than replacing it entirely.” And that came from the bot folks.

Nikki

16:22
Okay, but is it being honest with us? Or is it being sneaky and trying to make us feel safe when we’re not?

Laura

16:31
Okay, what was that movie in the 80s and 90s with Arnold Schwarzenegger? The Terminator. Yeah, so we’re not living in a terminator world, Nikki, AI won’t be terminating artists.

Nikki

16:42
Yet. Okay, let’s get serious here.

Laura

16:47
But Nikki, okay, let’s just say you think your art has been used or copied in a piece of AI art being used commercially, perhaps along with 10,000 other points of reference? How would an indie artist get compensated for this? I mean, even if legislation was somehow put in place to protect artists, I’m not sure how that would work or even be enforced?

Nikki

17:08
Well, of course right as we’re about to tie this up, you introduce a topic I haven’t researched yet. So what can we actually do about this? You know, it’s still an argument that people are dealing with, with just people copying your art, much less machines. So I think we just barely scratched the surface here. And we should do another episode or a series of episodes on this topic, as our understanding of it all develops.

Laura

17:34
Yeah, I mean, can you send a cease and desist letter to a robot?

Nikki

17:39
You can try. Yeah, I’ve read a lot of things about people being upset finding their work used in some of these images, but I haven’t heard a lot about what they’re doing about it, or what recourse we might have. I also haven’t even talked about the chatbot I asked to create podcast episode topics and titles or the artist statement I asked it to write for me.

Laura

18:00
Did it write an artist statement for you?

Nikki

18:02
It did. It did, but that’s for another episode.

Laura

18:06
That’s fascinating. All right. So Nikki, we’ve talked about some of these negative aspects of AI art, what we’re scared about. But are there any ways that we can leverage artificial intelligence for our own benefit?

Nikki

18:19
Yeah, I think so. I have a couple of ideas that I haven’t pursued yet, but it might be fun to try them and talk about it. Like doing some quick AI sketches to get your ideas out quickly.

Laura

18:29
Yeah, I’ve personally created a number of AI images in Midjourney that I now want to traditionally paint with my own hands. And can AI art be used just for inspiration and a jumping-off place for your own handmade work?

Nikki

18:42
Yeah, I think we can turn maybe not all of these concerns, but some of these tools into ways to help us get our own ideas out quicker.

Laura

18:49
But now I think this is turning into Inception. Nikki, if I paint something based on an AI image that is based on other people’s work, am I now stealing, Nikki?

Nikki

18:58
I don’t know, don’t you have some Pinterest boards or artists you follow on Instagram that inspire you? I mean, this is a topic of using art as inspiration that comes up again and again. And there’s a right way to do it, you know, we’ve talked about it before, where you make sure that you’re getting inspired by many, many sources, not just looking at one other artist, and then you create your own, being influenced by multiple things that you’ve seen without directly copying.

Laura

19:28
Agreed. And as some of these engines become more advanced, you may be able to upload a certain set of images, kind of like the Lensa portrait app did. And then use that to create unique new art based on your own photography or images. Although then you have to worry about it’s now on the engine and now other people are using your original images and stealing from you there. So it’s a never-ending cycle.

Nikki

19:53
There’s no end of things to worry about.

Laura

19:57
So I think what it comes down to is that there are a lot of things about AI art to fear. But I think if you continue to make the art that you love, share it with your people and those people will pick up on that passion. And as we move more and more into a digital world, I think people, personally, Nikki, are going to crave what is real, what’s authentic, what’s handmade, versus what’s computer generated, because computer generation is just going to be everywhere, right? It’s going to be ubiquitous. So to be able to have like unique artwork is going to be something people are going to want to pay for, in my opinion.

Nikki

20:32
I agree. And I hope we’re both right. And like I’ve said, we’ve barely touched the surface. I’d love to do more episodes on this in the future and maybe find some folks more directly involved to interview. But for now, we’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. What do you think are the benefits and downsides to AI art? Are you worried or excited? Let us know in our Startist Society Facebook group.

Laura

20:57
For links to all the resources mentioned in today’s episode, go to startistsociety.com/aiart

Nikki

21:08
And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, we’d love for you to leave us a five-star rating and review and share it with a friend. reviews help us reach more Startists like you and keep us inspired to create new episodes.

Laura

21:19
Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.